[00:16] Meg: Welcome to Desperately Seeking the 80s. I am Meg.

[00:18] Jessica: And I'm Jessica. And Meg and I have been friends since 1982. We got through middle school and high school together here in New York City, where we still live and where we

[00:27] Meg: podcast about New York city in the 80s. I do ripped from the headlines and

[00:31] Jessica: I do pop culture.

[00:33] Meg: On my way over here on the subway, I'm looking through current events, and something very interesting happened today.

[00:42] Jessica: Okay.

[00:42] Meg: But something specifically connected to our little interest niche New York city in the 80s. E. Jean Carroll, you know the story, of course.

[00:52] Jessica: Yes, I know all about E. Yes.

[00:55] Meg: Do you know today's news?

[00:57] Jessica: Oh, God. Oh, God, no. I'm frightened. Really? Is it gonna ruin my day?

[01:02] Meg: No.

[01:02] Jessica: Oh. Oh, good.

[01:03] Meg: The Supreme Court actually did something right. They said, guess what, Trump? You actually do have to pay her. He sent it up the flagpole or whatever to ask the Supreme Court to, for some reason, not have to pay her. Guess what? He has to pay her. Anyway, that's good news.

[01:21] Jessica: That's wonderful news.

[01:23] Meg: Accountability.

[01:25] Jessica: It's accountability. But it's also that the Supreme Court is upholding all of the courts that came before that said, this is a clear verdict, and we can't overturn a series of clear verdicts.

[01:38] Meg: And yet they've been a little erratic in recent years.

[01:43] Jessica: Oh, yeah.

[01:43] Meg: So I don't necessarily count on them doing the right thing. Very happy they did.

[01:49] Jessica: Agreed.

[01:49] Meg: Also, you know that there's the E. Jean Carroll documentary. Yes, I cannot wait to see.

[01:55] Jessica: Maybe we should do it. Like to want to come over and pop some popcorn and watch it together and get indignant?

[02:02] Meg: I would totally do that. I think it's actually inspiring, too. Not just, you know, ah, the injustice of it all. But it's not streaming. It's still on the festival circuit.

[02:13] Jessica: Oh, well, whenever it is viewable. Yes, please. I'm speaking of uplifting.

[02:19] Meg: Great.

[02:20] Jessica: Did you read the speech that James Talarico did? You know, he is campaigning for Democrat Texas Senate, and his speech was so brilliant. And I know Texas is your original home state. He spoke to the people of Texas in a way that, I swear to you, it was almost like, remember the Alamo? It just, like, deconstructed what it is to be a Texan and to be an American and that, you know, you have to be a Texan. Like, these are the Texas qualities, values and values. And are you really not going to. And look at where Texas and original American constitutional values overlap. And this is all one thing. And it was so great. And I didn't know this about him. He is 8th generation Texas. Texas before it was Texas. So there's no flies on him. There's no way to be like you lefty carpet bagger. Exactly. We have spoken about this on several occasions that like, is there a. A really insurmountable vacuum in the Democratic Party? Like, who's going to fill this? And I gotta say, this guy wrote a blueprint for every Democratic candidate to use. Anyway, it's great. It's a great speech. I think it's. It was printed in the New York Times, so check it out.

[04:05] Meg: Other good news.

[04:07] Jessica: Wait, there's more.

[04:09] Meg: There's more.

[04:10] Jessica: How can. I don't believe you. What could it be?

[04:13] Meg: I was exchanging some messages with one of our BFFs of the podcast who is very excited about sending us in a story about his days in the East Village.

[04:25] Jessica: Fabulous.

[04:26] Meg: Yeah, I love it.

[04:28] Jessica: That's cool. Yeah.

[04:29] Meg: We got our first story.

[04:31] Jessica: Thank you.

[04:32] Meg: If anyone has a great story, personal story about New York city in the 80s, we would love to hear it. Send me an email or contact us through the Instagram and we'll tell you how to record it yourself. We will play it on the podcast and then Jessica and I will respond to it. It'll be really fun.

[04:52] Jessica: Yes. The voices of the public.

[04:56] Meg: Yay.

[05:07] Jessica: So our watch party today was the classic After School Special, which was even more absurd than what I remembered. 1987's the Day My Kid Went Punk.

[05:24] Meg: Question, had you ever seen it before?

[05:27] Jessica: Yes.

[05:28] Meg: Okay. I had never seen it before, so I just expected something completely, totally different

[05:35] Jessica: from what I watched because it should have been. First off, let's just even parse the title of this After School Special. The Day My Kid Went Went Went Punk.

[05:52] Meg: How would you rephrase that?

[05:53] Jessica: I would say turned punk. Yeah. You were like, holy crap, my kid's a punk.

[06:00] Meg: That's even better.

[06:01] Jessica: Like something like, what would ABC go with instead of holy crap? Like, yikes.

[06:08] Meg: So kids a punk to set the stage. This is an After School Special. So I assume that it aired at 3 or 4pm on a weekday. So it's not going to be like a scare tactic thing. I don't know why I thought it was going to be like, oh my God, it's so scary.

[06:27] Jessica: But they had scare. I mean, that was when. That was when those shows had scare tactics. Like when Helen Hunt went out the window.

[06:33] Meg: That was scary, right?

[06:34] Jessica: There are all kinds of scary. Or like schoolboy father. That's a scary outcome there. Rob Lowe.

[06:40] Meg: My dad lives in a hotel.

[06:42] Jessica: Oh, no.

[06:44] Meg: Scary so you're right. They were dark and foreboding. But not this one.

[06:50] Jessica: This. Okay, so let's start from the beginning. Okay.

[06:53] Meg: Can I just say, at the very beginning, the font of the title, it's like graffiti font. Oh, I thought it was trying to be like, Halloween skin scary. I.

[07:04] Jessica: Well, you see, already they failed because the tune of Art. Yeah, it's just like it's trying to look chaotic. That's it. And so it opens with a shot of, like, the sign outside of a school. So it's like, you know, blazer Crest Academy Preparatory Academy.

[07:28] Meg: There's classical music playing.

[07:29] Jessica: Right. And so the classical music continues as the camera pans into the school's auditorium where all of these kids in a school orchestra are playing. And I nearly fell out of my seat from day one.

[07:41] Meg: The conductor.

[07:42] Jessica: The conductor is the conductor from Fame, the TV show.

[07:45] Meg: Not the movie.

[07:46] Jessica: No, also the movie.

[07:47] Meg: No, no, no, no.

[07:48] Jessica: Yes, yes, yes.

[07:49] Meg: No, no. He's one of the teachers, but he's not the conductor of the orchestra.

[07:52] Jessica: Not at the end. He's the teacher at the beginning. The teacher of the orchestra. Not. But do you remember who the orchestra conductor in Fame, in the film at the end was?

[08:03] Meg: Yes.

[08:03] Jessica: And do you know that he conducted us? Yes. I'm just saying. Jonathan Strasser.

[08:09] Meg: Yes.

[08:09] Jessica: An angry little man.

[08:11] Meg: Well, very exacting.

[08:13] Jessica: Anyway, it was Mr. Sharofsky from Fame,

[08:17] Meg: who is played by Albert Haig. And I looked him up and he played a lot of conductors.

[08:23] Jessica: Yes. Well, he had a musical background, and he's a very avuncular feeling to him. So he's a warm fuzzy.

[08:29] Meg: He was a great casting choice because he comes back at the end.

[08:34] Jessica: You're bringing me to another point about the casting that I just have to put front and center. This is less an After School Special and more an episode of the Love Boat. Because the casting is like they're just stuffing it full of everyone who I guess was on that network.

[08:54] Meg: Most notably. You're right, it was abc. Most notably, Father, who is played by Doc.

[09:01] Jessica: Bernie Capel.

[09:02] Meg: Yeah.

[09:03] Jessica: Yes. But also notable, Roxy Roker, who was on the Jeffersons.

[09:08] Meg: Oh, that's who that was. Oh, my God, she's so freaky.

[09:11] Jessica: Also mother of Lenny Kravitz.

[09:15] Meg: Are you serious?

[09:16] Jessica: I swear to you, that's wild.

[09:17] Meg: She's a very comedic actor. She's got. She gives good face, let's put it that way. She certainly did on the Jeffersons and she did on this show in a less effective way, I would say. Like, it's like Everybody read the same script and had no friggin idea what they were supposed to do.

[09:35] Jessica: One of the like vital things that this After School special lacked was a message. Like what was wait, what are you going for? So other, other. I will, I will. But other cast members of note, the guy who owned the hotel was the governor on Benson.

[09:53] Meg: Yes indeed.

[09:53] Jessica: Yes, yes he was. There are others. Craig Beerko or Burko who plays the older brother who wound up being like really big in the 90s.

[10:04] Meg: He looked like he was a 45 year old man.

[10:06] Jessica: Yes, he had blow dry newscaster hair.

[10:09] Meg: He was supposed to be 17 or 20 maybe.

[10:12] Jessica: He looked like, he looked like Ted Danson. He had like Ted Danson hair but

[10:16] Meg: he looked like he was 45. He did not look like the older brother of the 17 year old kid. He looked like his father.

[10:25] Jessica: Yes, exactly.

[10:26] Meg: Getting back to the story, the kid, what's his name? Terry.

[10:30] Jessica: Terry. The mild mannered Terry.

[10:34] Meg: He is a violinist in the school orchestra and we find out that he wants to date a girl and she's not interested in him because he's such a dork. He's, he's just a, A violinist.

[10:48] Jessica: No, no, he's a dork.

[10:50] Meg: Was he that much of a dork?

[10:51] Jessica: Yeah, he was.

[10:52] Meg: He just looks straight laced to me.

[10:54] Jessica: No, he also had like the glasses.

[10:56] Meg: Oh, he had glasses. The glasses.

[10:58] Jessica: The glasses were so endorked that it, it just made everything else about him instantly like no, no, you can't date a guy with those glasses.

[11:08] Meg: So he's sad about that. Yes. He goes home, we find out that his father writes about crisis management and his mother has written a very important academic paper called Very Important.

[11:24] Jessica: I mean it's like crucial. The most important thing of this entire. The American Psychiatric association is hanging on a thread until she delivers this paper.

[11:35] Meg: People are calling and they're really like, where is the paper? And this seminar is so important where you're going to deliver this paper. I mean this is the paper to end all papers. And the paper is called why Children Go Punk. So Terry has a couple of problems, right? He, he wants to date this girl who. Oh, we should have mentioned that. The girl he wants to date who's also in the orchestra walks away with a guy who looks kind of like a bad guy.

[12:02] Jessica: He's a badass.

[12:03] Meg: All right? So now he's at home and he's got, you know, white button up shirt or whatever and I'm sorry, he looks like a 35 year old. He does not look like a teenager to Me.

[12:15] Jessica: Well, to me, the getup doesn't look like a teenager, but he's. He doesn't have even the promise of any kind of facial hair. Like, he's very, very boyish looking. He's like, very, very cute.

[12:27] Meg: Maybe it was his outfit that makes him look so old.

[12:31] Jessica: Well, they all looked like accountants, all of them.

[12:35] Meg: Yes, they did. Now, he does want to join a band, and he wants to play the electric guitar in this band. And his parents seem somewhat supportive. They're certainly not saying no. But we also get a sense that because he is the middle child, the dreaded middle.

[12:53] Jessica: See, talk about a syndrome.

[12:55] Meg: He's got a sassy little sister and a very accomplished older brother who's 52, very accomplished. He's had all those years to accomplish things. So he. He's lost in the. He's lost in the scene. Nobody's paying too much attention.

[13:13] Jessica: Well, and we find out that he wants to play rock and roll when he is on his way to work for the summer at an undisclosed. Like, we don't know where he's going, but Bernie Capel is putting him in a car and he's saying, I'm so sorry that I can't go with you. So it's like, ooh, neglect, neglect. Ooh, we're getting a little signal here. But they have a big hug. And the kid Terry is like, you know, Dad, I think I might just put the violin to the side this summer and play guitar. And he's like, well, that sounds like. Like indulgently, like a guitar. Who's ever heard of such an instrument? Okay, you scamp, off you go.

[13:59] Meg: And he also says he might change up his look a little bit and Bernie doesn't. Oh, and say no to that.

[14:06] Jessica: And we know that because as he's getting sent off, his mother makes a comment about his contact lenses. So he's going to start wearing. So you're like, okay, we already know what this is going to be. As if the title of this film did not tip us off, clue us in.

[14:25] Meg: Now, I have a question for you, Jessica.

[14:27] Jessica: I'm very excited to answer it.

[14:28] Meg: So he is in the bus station waiting for this van. That's exactly not a bus, but a van. Two punk adjacent girls sit next to him who basically just look like Long island girls to me.

[14:42] Jessica: You know what they are? They look modern.

[14:46] Meg: And they look at him and he looks at them and they giggle at him.

[14:50] Jessica: Doesn't he, like, greet them or something? And they're like, yeah, and they just stare at him. Silently and laugh.

[14:56] Meg: Yeah, they laugh at him.

[14:58] Jessica: Yeah.

[14:59] Meg: This is my question. They've laughed at him. He's still sitting there. They go away and he picks up a bag. What was in that bag?

[15:10] Jessica: Well, I'm so glad you asked. What I gathered like a paper bag

[15:15] Meg: is what I'm saying.

[15:16] Jessica: Yeah, it's a white paper bag. They also leave behind a magazine.

[15:18] Meg: It's a magazine.

[15:19] Jessica: And he's like, what are you about to do with these things? Well, he picks them up because first he's gonna try to give them to the girls. Cause he's showing he's such a nice guy. But then they're gone already. So he puts down the magazine, he looks in the white paper bag and has like a reaction.

[15:36] Meg: Yes.

[15:37] Jessica: And toddles off to the bathroom. I think that it was the spray color.

[15:42] Meg: So do you think that the story, which they did not tell well was actually that the girls had left their magazine and hair colored hairspray behind and he was trying to give it to them, but they ran off and instead he took the magazine and the hairspray into the bathroom and decided to become punk at that moment?

[16:03] Jessica: No, not at all. Oh, so number one, didn't he put the magazine down? He did not take it with him. Now let's just roll back for a second. What I love in poorly made TV shows and films is you see someone carrying a suitcase. The suitcase is clearly empty and you're just like, I like that too. And like it was clearly like, you know, like buckling a little. Like a soft sided vinyl Y kind of faux leather suitcase. So he goes into the bathroom, if you recall, and he puts the suitcase up on the sink ledge and he unzips it. It does have stuff in it. It has one outfit for the whole summer and it's his punk gear. So it's a. A leather jacket with studs and it's some black T shirts and jeans with some more like chains. They don't show the footwear.

[17:02] Meg: But what's in the white bag?

[17:04] Jessica: Oh, oh. So. But then he starts clipping his hair so he can have more of a faux hawk.

[17:10] Meg: Yes.

[17:11] Jessica: And I think that in the bag. Because if you go, if you go back and look, which I did, one of the girls has that red spray.

[17:20] Meg: So the spray's in the bag.

[17:21] Jessica: Yeah, I think, I think it's the color. I know you said it and I also said it. I don't know why you're fighting me on it.

[17:27] Meg: Because you fought me on it.

[17:28] Jessica: I did not fight you on it. I said the spray is in the bag. No, no. What I said is. No, no. That wasn't the thing that made him go punk. He was already primed because he had packed his duds. His punk duds.

[17:43] Meg: Yeah. It's a leather jacket. There are, like, studs on it or something. It's not just any old leather jacket. It's. It's a punk leather jacket.

[17:51] Jessica: It's what you would have purchased at Hot Topic. I think it was like, your punk kit, right? I mean, not that I've ever been

[17:59] Meg: in a Hot Topic. How would you know, Jessica?

[18:02] Jessica: He had his kit. And hilariously, the other thing that I loved so much is that he's creating this giant new look, but the amount of hair he clips off with the nail scissors is like four microscopic tufts of hair that are left in the sink. And then he. He, like, mooses his hair back on the sides. And that moose comes up in the conversation shortly thereafter.

[18:29] Meg: But let me ask you a bigger picture question.

[18:32] Jessica: It's so good. What.

[18:35] Meg: What is punk? If you wanted to go punk, if you went punk, not. What would it look like? What would it mean?

[18:45] Jessica: It would mean that I'm, like, against the establishment, and I'm also dropping out because, you know, I have something to say that's political and against the current. I'm thinking, like, okay, what's the Clash into? Or, okay, the Sex Pistols. They were just literally. They were literally a bunch of, like, you know, toothless jobs who were hired by Malcolm. Malcolm McLaren, because they were toothless jobs to be anarchists. Anyone who's just, like, you know, up yours, society.

[19:21] Meg: Okay, What Terry does after he puts on this makeup and does the hair and puts on the jacket and he sprays his hair, he makes it stand up a little bit, and he sprays

[19:34] Jessica: it with red, he dutifully goes off to his job.

[19:37] Meg: What he does is he. He goes to the summer job that he's already signed up for, and he's going to be a kids counselor at this hotel that also, coincidentally, is going to sponsor the big seminar that.

[19:52] Jessica: No, no, not sponsor, host. Because his mother is bringing in all the money, which is why they're putting up with him.

[19:58] Meg: And as a child counselor, he's actually very good with children. He's very empathetic. And he's also working with the establishment. He's about the opposite of fuck the man as you could possibly be, except he's got red hair.

[20:21] Jessica: He's.

[20:21] Meg: He's working well with everyone. He works well with the authority figures. He works well with the kids. When a mom comes in and is like, I don't trust him because of the way he looks, he wins her over with his kind heart and his out of the box thinking and his, his interest in.

[20:40] Jessica: He even helps a handicapped child. He's as sweet and milk toasty as he was prior to doing his hair and wearing black clothes.

[20:53] Meg: So I, I would just argue, and I know that this is silly to even discuss, but I would argue he didn't in fact go punk.

[21:00] Jessica: No. And in fact, everything that is discussed on this show is. Don't judge a book by its cover. The whole thing is about appearance. He could have been dressed as he was. He could have been in drag. He could have been dressed like a clown and just been like, hey, man, I'm all about clowns. Now it's clown time.

[21:25] Meg: So basically the, the show, which again, does not have a coherent message, but if it has any message, it believes that punk is how you look and not who you are.

[21:37] Jessica: Because. Should we cut to the end with the panel or should we save that?

[21:42] Meg: I think we have to save that because then we also have to talk about the makeup. Extraordinary.

[21:47] Jessica: So. But what's great is that consistently throughout the show, he has a little bit of static at the beginning with like the woman who's like, my handicapped child can't be in this daycare area. And they, they called it camp, but then it became like a nursery. They start calling it the nursery. And I was like, what the frig? And he has so much support from the establishment that when that woman complains, the governor from Benson, AKA hotel owner, is like, I'm sorry, ma', am, but Terry is really good at his job. And Terry's like, yeah, I am, but I don't want to make you feel bad, lady. So here's a weak willed smile.

[22:27] Meg: How about this? At the very beginning of all of this strife where the owner of the hotel doesn't like how he's dressed. And. And the woman from Roxy Roker. Yeah. From the Jeffersons is like, I don't trust him because of how he's dressed. Have you ever heard of a dress code? It would have solved the entire issue. He's an employee of yours. All you have to do is institute a dress code. Which I had in every single summer job I ever had.

[22:59] Jessica: Right. But they set up the reason why that might not be something he would have to adhere to because his mom is bringing so much money into the hotel with her conference that they don't want to risk alienating her son.

[23:18] Meg: Oh.

[23:18] Jessica: I mean, and they even say that there are 300 people attending this conference and staying in the hotel. So he is a. A little thorn.

[23:30] Meg: But they're sucking up to the.

[23:32] Jessica: To his mother.

[23:33] Meg: To him?

[23:34] Jessica: Well, yes, Vi. To his mother via him. Yes.

[23:38] Meg: Who, by the way, still does not know Doc and mother still do not know that he has in fact gone punk. Because they live at least a plane ride or a bus ride or a train ride.

[23:51] Jessica: It's probably 20 minutes away.

[23:54] Meg: Oh, by the way, I should say the children love him.

[23:57] Jessica: They're like literally holding his hands in a chain and skipping.

[24:01] Meg: It was like, he's the Pied Piper. I mean, they respond very well to the crazy hair and makeup.

[24:08] Jessica: He's a clown. We like him.

[24:11] Meg: Oh, but we should say before we move on that he does join the band.

[24:15] Jessica: Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[24:16] Meg: That's very important.

[24:17] Jessica: So he goes and he auditions. But here's the best part about that band audition. So he's playing this song to the children at the nursery on his electric guitar. But it's like really plinkety plink. And it's about, be yourself. Everything's wonderful if you be yourself, really nice and sweet.

[24:39] Meg: Don't let people tell you who you are. I mean, I could be making that up, but I think that was what it was.

[24:44] Jessica: It was totally the vibe. And the next scene, they're playing a hard rock version of the same song. I don't think that the band he joined had any songs released at that point. So how he convinced the band to be like, hey guys, I'm bringing one of my own songs to this audition. That's right. And I'm gonna school you because I'm actually a classically trained performer. So let me show you a little ditty I've got. It really gets the kids going.

[25:17] Meg: But I will say something controversial.

[25:21] Jessica: What?

[25:23] Meg: It's not a bad song.

[25:25] Jessica: I don't think that that's even an issue.

[25:29] Meg: Like, well, no, I thought leading up to that we had seen such ham fisted ridiculousness. As far as the story, as far as the performances, what is the genre of this? What is the style of this that God knows what they're going to show us when they're actually playing a punk song, but. And yet I was like, you know what?

[25:53] Jessica: That's.

[25:53] Meg: That's punk adjacent. And it's not bad.

[25:56] Jessica: I didn't feel it was punk adjacent. I felt that it was an upbeat pop Diddy. I. I hear you.

[26:02] Meg: I. This is why it was controversial. I knew you would disagree with me.

[26:05] Jessica: It's safe to say that they didn't suddenly get it right in the middle. Middle of the movie when they're like, hey, hey, guys.

[26:15] Meg: I'm not saying they got it right. I'm saying it was not as awful as I expected it to be.

[26:21] Jessica: Oh, okay. Well, you're. At that point, I was so stunned by the entire thing that I had no expectation. I didn't even realize he was going for an audition. So by the time he's in the audition and he's playing, all that I'm aware of is, isn't that the song he played the kids? And how did he get this?

[26:40] Meg: I'm glad.

[26:41] Jessica: I understand that.

[26:42] Meg: So nice little transition there.

[26:43] Jessica: Yeah. But it was really just. It doesn't. That's not how bands work.

[26:47] Meg: Slight tangent. I'm just glad this was 45 minutes instead of Vampire's Kiss, which I think was like two and a half hours.

[26:55] Jessica: I am really glad that the brevity worked for you, because I can tell you, I also checked the time, and I kept thinking, where are they gonna go? Because they've got 20 minutes left to go.

[27:11] Meg: And really, at this point in the story, what's the conflict? The only conflict left is that his parents have not seen him yet and that his mother is going to show up at this conference in order to give this speech, this seminar about how to prevent your child from going punk.

[27:35] Jessica: Now, here's where I just want to highlight some of the incredibly entertaining choices that the writers made. When Terry is still at home, he sort of solicits his mother's attention, like, twice. And both times, she's getting on the phone about the conference or she's talking about her book or whatever, and she kind of gives him lip service and then sloughs him off. Okay, this is important. Also, we know that she is in some way therapeutic adjacent. And his father, okay, this is a big tip off, Is a consultant in crisis management. So I think we know what the setup is going to be. That the dad who's hugging him when he goes off. And by the way, who isn't there? His mother, who his father apologizes for. Right. So then suddenly the parents decide that they are going to go to the hotel for the conference a few days early because they want a little vacation time. And. And. And when they see Terry, he is surprised. But his surprise, I was like, was he planning to clean up his act before they arrived, or was he just like, oh, how interesting. You're three days early. Hi, Mom. Hi, Dad.

[29:01] Meg: I don't think he was going to clean up his act. Because he very adamantly does not clean up his act when both of his parents go, well, that was an interesting experiment, but obviously you need to wash your hair.

[29:15] Jessica: Correct. I agree with you. But his react like the way they did the setup, I think they were trying to create the tension. Like, would Terry have made a choice? What would he have done? Oh, no, he is sticking to his guns. This really is who he is. And the mother comes up and is such an asshole.

[29:37] Meg: Very selfish.

[29:38] Jessica: Very selfish.

[29:38] Meg: It's all about her.

[29:39] Jessica: How could you do this?

[29:40] Meg: Her son is embarrassing her, which, I mean, I say that out loud and it hurts my little heart because I

[29:48] Jessica: have been told that I'm having a flashback right now.

[29:51] Meg: I'm sorry. I broke.

[29:52] Jessica: That was really. That was difficult. And, like, the actual words were so much worse. So, yeah, I'm with you, babe. Baby. But of course, Bernie Capel, AKA Doc, is like, hey, hey, let's just calm down. Because I'm a crisis management consultant. I'm gonna bring the temperature down on this, and I'm gonna handle the mother. But here's what I want to say about the mother and the characterization of the mother. It's 1987. We've talked about women portrayed in the media. This particular year, even. She's a selfish career woman. She couldn't give a shit about anyone but herself. She's ignoring her child.

[30:41] Meg: She's ignoring her children. She's career focused. She can't see him for who he is.

[30:50] Jessica: She's the bad things that you that are were classically brought up when there was a working mom in anything or a working woman. I'm even thinking I just had a little, like, flashback. Even Mr. Mom, which was such a sweet movie. When the dynamic changes. Terry Gar gets a little salty and a little bossy, and he's like, wait a minute. I want to go back to being the man. So there no one is safe. So there they are with Selfish Mom. But now can we take a minute to talk about her makeup?

[31:29] Meg: Sure.

[31:30] Jessica: Okay.

[31:31] Meg: Her makeup.

[31:32] Jessica: Her makeup.

[31:33] Meg: I mean, her hair.

[31:34] Jessica: Her hair. Her outfits. Like, where do we begin?

[31:38] Meg: The hair was extraordinary. It was a helmet with a bit of a DA at the bottom.

[31:46] Jessica: A flip.

[31:46] Meg: A flip. Strange color that matched her outfit.

[31:52] Jessica: And by the way, that was something

[31:54] Meg: you were trying to do in 87.

[31:56] Jessica: When she berates Terry for his sprayed in red color. And he doesn't say, but you went from brown hair to blonde. He says, you went from brown to yellow. And I was like, what? Terry? Terry is that you finally being the bad boy that you've always wanted to be, that you just read your mama's hair, like, what? So she's got this ridiculous all one color blonde. And then the makeup and then her

[32:28] Meg: face also was not natural color, darling.

[32:33] Jessica: It was full on kabuki.

[32:35] Meg: I mean, well, speaking of kabuki.

[32:39] Jessica: But let's just do the mother first. Let's just do the mother first. So the way that they must have been trying to like make her, you know, like, back then they would do soft filter lenses on older women. So like, I felt that their makeup choice was trying to lighten and brighten this woman because they had white powder. Like, it was so clearly white makeup that started just above her eyebrows and then went down to like the tops of her cheeks where you would maybe want all the light to reflect. And then it sort of fades away. And then she's got this pink lipstick and it makes it seem as though she has the same lip line as Lisa Simpson because her top lip is very pronounced and the bottom lip seems to have disappeared.

[33:38] Meg: Well, think about it this way. Nowadays, if we want to learn a new way to do our makeup or we want to improve or use a new product, or we see something that looks really great, we'd like to try. We have tutorials on the YouTube or the Instagram. What are you going to do if you are hired as a makeup person for this show? And parameters are you have to make a one kid in particular, but then eventually six kids punk. And you have no friggin idea what that means. And you've got to deal with this woman and you've got doc who. You've got a powder. I just, I had a moment of like, this is literally the worst job. Who ever got hired for this job. It was their nightmare because they didn't know what the fuck they were doing and they kept like winging it.

[34:30] Jessica: Well, I really like that you are giving this makeup artist some, some grace because you're like, you're like, it must be something with the people they had to work with. No, this makeup artist, I mean, it wasn't like it was the 20s and silent film and they were like, if we use green lipstick, it'll show up. Like what red might look like if it was a color film. No, this was someone who absolutely 100% could have known what they were doing. What? I think there was some Nepo situation happening or similar.

[35:09] Meg: Come up with a whole backstory.

[35:10] Jessica: I have a whole backup artist. But there's some. There's a reason this person who is completely out of their depth was hired. And what I also think is that this person was like, I have so much white pancake makeup, I have to

[35:24] Meg: get rid of it.

[35:25] Jessica: I have to use it up, or else maybe I have to pay for it, because I didn't. I don't know what they're doing.

[35:32] Meg: Over the course of the show, Terry gets more creative with his makeup. So he ends up doing full white face with, like, purple or black lips. It's a little unclear. And then along his cheekbones, right.

[35:50] Jessica: Right under the. Like, slanted down.

[35:53] Meg: Is it big, bold brown line that's like an inch thick?

[35:59] Jessica: Yes, it's.

[36:00] Meg: I've never seen anything. A picture of that in the wild. I've never seen anything like that. This makeup artist just went rogue. And then we should say the crisis management husband. His. His solution to the whole problem, because the mother is like, I'm going to be so embarrassed that I actually have a punk child. And for some reason, the local news is reporting this is literally the most important seminar in the history of seminars.

[36:31] Jessica: Yeah. Like, never more groundbreaking.

[36:35] Meg: The local news reports on the fact that the woman running this seminar about how not to have a punk child has a punk child. So it's been televised. Okay.

[36:45] Jessica: But even better, if I may add, the reason that happens prior to that is she's sitting, being interviewed, like, feeling. Like feeling herself. Right. With the news person. And again, just to your point, like, what is punk? It's clearly not walking into the hotel in your punk outfit, seeing your mother being interviewed, waving over your head like Forrest Gump and going, hi, Mom.

[37:13] Meg: Which is what happens. And the local news catches that on film, and they. They put that on the local news. But, yeah, that's not really punk. Like, to be like, I like my mom.

[37:26] Jessica: Hi, mom. Hi, mom. And then all hell breaks loose because now they have a real. Like, a fracas.

[37:33] Meg: Oh, no. This very important seminar has been.

[37:36] Jessica: You ruined it.

[37:37] Meg: Completely ruined. Because how can she talk about this when she has a punk son? But then the crisis management husband.

[37:43] Jessica: Oh, but for the first time, she turns to crisis management husband and says, finally, what should I do?

[37:51] Meg: And he tells her, use it. Use it. So somehow she gets a whole panel of punk boys. They're all boys. All boys who all have the identical makeup because they've all had to go to the same makeup person. And they all have, like, total white face and black lips, and it looks absolutely absurd. And then they do tell rather touching stories about how their families have abandoned them and their parents don't love them. So it ends up being a very important lesson for all the extraordinarily old people in the audience.

[38:31] Jessica: Yes.

[38:31] Meg: I mean, were those like. It was like the golden girls.

[38:34] Jessica: It was 8,000. Although you know how with the Golden Girls, like, I've seen this in so many Instagram feeds, It's like Rue McClanahan was 43.

[38:46] Meg: Yeah.

[38:46] Jessica: Okay, so maybe these people were like 29.

[38:49] Meg: Very well may have been, but they all had the same kind of like tight white little hairdos. And they were very, very concerned about their children. Not their grandchildren, but their children becoming punk. But then suddenly they had a revelation where, oh, they're just kids who want to be loved and they want to be noticed. Noticed and appreciated. So.

[39:20] Jessica: And by the way, and not a single one on the panel actually had a problem before the parents threw them out.

[39:27] Meg: So it's the parents.

[39:29] Jessica: There's no. One of the kids even says, like, we're not on drugs. We're just like the music Man. And then the one parent who actually looks like she might be a parent stands up and is like, you know, this is terrible. It's the end of civilization. And the woman who is the mother of the child with the leg braces, which, by the way, Terry really pulls one out of the air because when that child is denied the opportunity to ride a horse, he says, wait a minute, I'll be right back. Scurries off, comes back with, in a brown paper bag, a Cabbage Patch looking doll for this child that has braces on her legs and little crutches. And the girl's like, I love it and I think you're beautiful. And the mother was like, oh, wrong. So then the mother stands up during the seminar and is like, I was someone who really misjudged Terry, but now I can see that he's just a great kid. And one of the kids on the panel is like, they're like, how old are you? One kid's like, I'm 14. That child was a 24 year old, okay. He was like, I'm 14. And everyone goes, oh.

[40:47] Meg: And they all also. And I think this is important. Walk away from that seminar feeling like it might just be a phase. They just should be patient. They were afraid and they were asking, why are you doing this? And then the kids said why they were doing it. But then the implication was, it might not be forever.

[41:13] Jessica: In fact, I think that at one point someone does say, I think this is a phase. And it's. It's just left hanging there like, it's not Resolved. As if we had not been given the information with a sledgehammer so far. One of the kids on the panel wraps up the panel with and don't judge a book bad's cover. And I was like, oh, don't forget the mother prevails because the parents were so clever. Crisis management dad bolsters the career of psychiatrist mother who is told, that's the best seminar I've ever attended. And it looks like you're gonna be a full time hire at the university. So the parents get everything they could ever want off Terry's back. Off the back of Terry, who they have been shunning. They win.

[42:09] Meg: And then it was just a summer job. So Terry goes back to school and the big question is, will he stay a punk or will he go back to being a violinist in the orchestra? And to make it full circle, Sharovsky, the conductor says, you actually do have to make a choice because you can't dress like that. He has a dress code. You can't dress like that if you want to be in the orchestra.

[42:37] Jessica: And his reason was really good. His reason was, I don't want you to draw focus.

[42:42] Meg: And also, he's actually not condemning him. He's being like a really good authority figure saying, like, in life you do have to make choices. And this is an interesting choice to make. And I'm sure you will make the choice that is right for you.

[42:58] Jessica: Whoa.

[42:59] Meg: That. That, I. That was good writing there. Yeah. Like, finally we hear something that's not like, ham fisted.

[43:06] Jessica: Well, it's also. His delivery was very good.

[43:09] Meg: Yes.

[43:09] Jessica: Albert Haig, he's perfect. He was, he was. You know, he was. I. I'd take violin lessons from him.

[43:16] Meg: But then I may say, yes, he does decide that he will stay punk. But then he doesn't really stay punk. He kind of takes the stuff out of his ears and he takes the makeup off. Thank God for that. And then there's just a little bitty red streak. I mean, the point is, he did end up having his cake and needed too.

[43:40] Jessica: Well, he took off that stuff, but he kept his leathers and black clothing on.

[43:45] Meg: But the whole, like, you have to make a choice in life.

[43:48] Jessica: No, no, he didn't really make a choice. He said, I'm gonna go to the band. He said, I'm not gonna do orchestra. I'm gonna be in the band.

[43:54] Meg: But he didn't stay pumped. Like, he tried to have it both ways so that he could please his family but also be in the band.

[44:00] Jessica: Well, no, what's even better Is. Or worse. I don't know which. Better or worse. It's not even to please his family, in my opinion. My read of this incredibly complex oeuvre was that he saw that figuring out who he was didn't have to be so drastic. Like, was it really him? Well, this part's him and that part's not. And, you know, he had gone through his experimental process, and Mr. Sharofsky did show him, you can't have your cake and eat it too. And he decided to go rock, not punk.

[44:43] Meg: Okay.

[44:44] Jessica: He went rockin road, not punk.

[44:48] Meg: Which seems like a little bit of capitulation, compromise. Yeah. But whatever, it's fine. He ends up with a girl. She.

[44:56] Jessica: The girl who rejected him, but now he looks like a bad boy.

[44:59] Meg: Yeah. And that's what she wanted.

[45:01] Jessica: And by the way, she has crimped hair at this point. So I just want it on the record that, like, you know, she's no angel. She's using a crimping iron. We know what that means. Just one last thing. His siblings stand up for him. And when he is rejected by the parents, there is this scene where the little girl, the sister, is like, we really don't pay attention to Terry at all. Yeah, that was dark. It was weird. It was really weird. And then his older brother is like. Says something similar. And so at the end of the. Whatever. This was his older brother, who's bizarrely 42, and an accountant goes into his room and says something no older brother has ever said to the middle child brother in the history of siblings. Look, man, you just gotta be yourself. And I don't know what this is, and it's not for me, but I just want you to know I really love you and I'm here for you. And they embrace. And I'm like, that's the biggest pile of horseshit. He would have walked in there and been like, yo, dude, I'm not gonna beat you up today. That's it. Bye. Bye. And to make it even better, they stole something from Family Ties because that character is in the Young Republicans club.

[46:29] Meg: Yes, indeed.

[46:30] Jessica: Yes. So just saying. Wow, that was a real. You know, everyone changes a little in this story.

[46:36] Meg: So do you remember the person in our senior class who went away. Went away over summer? So went away after junior year and came back senior year with a punk hairdo or her version of it.

[46:52] Jessica: I'm going to rise to this challenge. Let me think.

[46:57] Meg: I'm shocked. It's taking you a moment. The same red color.

[47:03] Jessica: That's right. Oh, my God. So that person, see, just like Terry. Yes. Had the glasses, never let them go, and never got rid of the rest of the way she dressed. She was trying to differentiate, which is,

[47:21] Meg: you know, trying to be seen.

[47:23] Jessica: Okay, so, Meg, my question to you to wrap all of this is in the firmament of after school specials. Was this a dream or was this a dud?

[47:36] Meg: It was a dud. I. I'm all for learning a lesson after school. I'm. I'm all for somebody telling me a story about, like, really probably don't get pregnant when you're 15. Or, you know, don't do angel dust

[47:54] Jessica: and jump out a window.

[47:55] Meg: Dust is bad. Maybe the kid across the room who you have nothing in common with, actually, you can find some common ground. I'm trying to think of, like, you know, the themes of these things. This one, I can't say it taught

[48:10] Jessica: me anything because here's the thing. After school specials were instructing kids on like, don't do drugs. Don't get, as you say, don't get pregnant. Don't be mean. Don't be anorexic.

[48:25] Meg: Like, don't be anorexic.

[48:26] Jessica: All the things. This one, the message was to the parents.

[48:31] Meg: Yeah. Why?

[48:33] Jessica: What's the point?

[48:34] Meg: Trust me, my parents are not watching television at 3pm and I was thinking,

[48:38] Jessica: like, is this providing a script for kids to talk to their parents? There was no discernible message. Whoever was supposed to be receiving this message wasn't a teenager.

[48:52] Meg: How about this? The whole story is about this woman who is giving a seminar on why children become punk and how to prevent that from happening. And whoever wrote this script was kind of in a similar situation where they knew not what they spoke of and just had to wing it, I think,

[49:16] Jessica: for better or worse. Well, I also think. You know what? You. When you started to talk about what the mother's seminar was, it also occurred to me she was so mystified by the whole thing. Wasn't that her specialty?

[49:29] Meg: That's what your profession is. This most important seminar of all seminars in the history of seminars, and they hired someone who doesn't know what they're doing.

[49:38] Jessica: Well, it's like, couldn't you lady, have like, reverse engineered your theory to figure out why the kids are like, she

[49:46] Meg: was a hypocrite on top of everything else.

[49:48] Jessica: She was dumb and a hypocrite. She was a dummy. She was a dumb, dumb dummy who needed a crisis management man to tell her what to do because she was a bad working mother. So, yeah, total fail. And yet and yet, if we decide to judge it purely for comedic value, a plus.

[50:16] Meg: All right. Better than Vampire's Kiss

[50:21] Jessica: because it's 45 shorter,

[50:25] Meg: Sam.