[00:16] Meg: Welcome to desperately seeking the 80s. I am Meg.

[00:18] Jessica: And I'm Jessica. And Meg and I have been friends since 1982. We got through middle school and high school together here in New York City, where we still still live and where

[00:27] Meg: we podcast about New York city in the 80s. I do ripped from the headlines, and

[00:31] Jessica: I do pop culture.

[00:33] Meg: Okay, so last week, we did something a little weird.

[00:37] Jessica: Oh, really?

[00:38] Meg: Yes.

[00:39] Jessica: This time. What? I mean, I listened to it.

[00:44] Meg: I thought it was really funny and bizarre. We did our yucks and our yums. All very valuable information. I'm just saying, I. I couldn't agree with you more.

[00:53] Jessica: I don't. I just became Kramer. I'm like, I'm with you.

[00:57] Meg: Yes. But my friend Chris, we were in another meeting or whatever, and she was like, by the way, Meg, I listened

[01:03] Jessica: to your podcast this week. You guys are so weird.

[01:09] Meg: I was like, what was it? The yum yum yum, yum, yum, yum, yum, yum, yum?

[01:12] Jessica: And she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that was it.

[01:15] Meg: That was it.

[01:15] Jessica: That's it. Well, tell her to get a load of field trip.

[01:19] Meg: You know, she must have heard field trip before.

[01:22] Jessica: Well, you know what's. You know what? She yucked our yum. No. Yeah, she did.

[01:28] Meg: She would never yuck our yum.

[01:30] Jessica: It's weird. That was. I'm just saying it sounds. It sounds a little. A little critical there, Chris. How you doing there?

[01:38] Meg: I disagree. I think she agrees with me that weird is wonderful and also pretty hysterical.

[01:45] Jessica: I think that we have long ago leaned into weird. So my point is, how much weirder do we have to be for someone who listens to the podcast to then say, guys, this is a little weird? And the best part is that we decided to do the yuk and yum off the cuff. Like, it was a totally normal thing to do that we're just like, oh, yeah, let's do yuck, yuck, yuck yuck. Y. Okay, that sounds good. Just gonna do that because that's, you know, it's filler. It works. The next thing we're going to wind up doing is, like, armpit farts, you know, in, like. No, it's a rhythm. It's a. You'll notice it. It's a song and a rhythm. It's the Star Spangled Banner. July 4th is coming up. Like, that's. I'm. I'm not putting it past us. And in fact, I think I just gave us a challenge. Oh, my God, I'm going to jump. Wait, wait. Okay. Yeah, I Knew that you were gonna start talking. And I'm like, no, I'm gonna do it before I say what I'm going to say what I was planning to say. We were just saying something before we started recording again. And I just want you to know how delighted I am that both of us are fundamentally vindictive people. And that while joking around about absolutely nothing important, we devolved in the course of. I'm not joking. Five seconds to fuck those guys. Yeah, fuck em. Stone cold suckers. They need to go. And I'm like, how did we even get there? It happened in a blink of an eye.

[03:29] Meg: Mind meld.

[03:30] Jessica: Mind meld. But. But in the polar opposite of that, I said something prior to recording. And I just think it's important to say what I said, and then I'm going to explain why it's important. Okay. Number one, great blouse, Meg. Great jewelry. Today. Your hair is not frizzy despite the weather. Your makeup is good. And I noticed that your fingernails and your toenails are so close in their shade, yet they are not alike. And I said, I clock you. You look great. This is a public service announcement. Everyone should tell their friends that they look nice because you know what? No one else will. We do not live in a gracious society. So if you see your friend, male, female, on the spectrum, in between, fluid, whatever, I just think that you should say you look great. And on a side note, I talked about Robbie Hoffman.

[04:32] Meg: Yes.

[04:33] Jessica: On the.

[04:33] Meg: So you're a big fan.

[04:35] Jessica: I am such a fan. She has had top surgery, but she is still identifying as a she and talking about her body dysmorphia, but, you know, her fluidity. And during her set, she made a comment. She's like, welcome, ladies, gentlemen, everyone in between. I can't even keep up anymore. So my saying on the spank drum of fluidity, I feel completely okay with that.

[05:01] Meg: Oh, of course. No, I support. I support you in every way, Jess.

[05:05] Jessica: Thank you. I just want to make sure you, like, you were eyeing me for being disrespectful. I'm taking my cues. I'm taking my cues from them. Yeah. Not now. Not this time. Generally, it is a problem.

[05:20] Meg: It can be a problem. But not today.

[05:25] Jessica: Yes, I am proud that I haven't started today saying, you know who I hate. So with that said, after giving you this compliment and encouraging, very kind, very

[05:36] Meg: generous, and also, thank you. I've had. I've had a week. And so that's a wonderful, wonderful perk. And I agree with you also, strangers. I think you once gave that advice on the air as well. Like every once in a while, just tell somebody.

[05:52] Jessica: Like, your shoes, you would never believe. Like, bag people light up, and it's not even because they think their bag is amazing. It's that they've been noticed. So noticing people now, admittedly, there are many times I'd like to notice someone and be like, you're an asshole. And I've noticed. But that's not today's lesson. No, today's lesson is spread the joy.

[06:19] Meg: Spread the joy.

[06:20] Jessica: Now, my darling, go for it. What have you got?

[06:24] Meg: What's your astrological sign? I should know this. I mean, I know when your birthday is, but I don't know what your sign is. I'm not that good at astounding.

[06:32] Jessica: I am very typical of my sign and particularly where I am within the zodiac sign. I am an Aries. I am an early in the time frame, whatever it is, early in the calendar, Aries. And I believe I have Aries Rising, which makes me super crazy. But Aries. Aries is the again, I'm really, really admitting to a lot right now, is the child of the zodiac. And so we're very fiery, we're very opinionated. We are leaders. We are upbeat and vindictive and impulsive. Not the best organizers.

[07:19] Meg: You know so much about astrology.

[07:21] Jessica: Do you know why I know this?

[07:23] Meg: I was about to ask the.

[07:24] Jessica: Do you remember the book that came out a long time ago? It's a huge, oversized book, and it's like the Book of Birthdays. And it has all of the astrological information for every single day of the year. And then it's like, within this birthday, if you're a this rising, you're a this. If you're a that rising, you're a that. So I read that thing at a time in my life when I was like, I don't know who I am anymore.

[07:51] Meg: I need to do you tattooed it on your brain?

[07:53] Jessica: I did. I internalized it. So I don't think that all of it is very flattering, but I'm willing

[08:01] Meg: to take it on.

[08:04] Jessica: Thank you. I think it was Simon and Schuster. I don't know. But it's a fun book. It's a fun book. Cool.

[08:12] Meg: Well, my story today is a follow up.

[08:17] Jessica: Interesting.

[08:19] Meg: And my sources are Vanity Fair and Bring Me the Beauties.

[08:26] Jessica: Interesting.

[08:27] Meg: So today we are going to hear another part of the story about Frederik von Meer's cult, Eternal Values.

[08:38] Jessica: I am beyond thrilled.

[08:43] Meg: So just as a bit of a reminder, when I did my earlier Story. I hadn't seen the documentary yet. I have now watched all three episodes of the documentary. Thank goodness it didn't tell me anything I'd said before was wrong.

[09:01] Jessica: Few, thank God.

[09:03] Meg: But it had all this additional information.

[09:05] Jessica: Huzzah.

[09:06] Meg: So this is from a different perspective. We heard a lot about Hoyt Richards story last time. We're gonna hear somebody else's.

[09:17] Jessica: I'm going to follow Robin Byrd's advice and I'm going to sit back, relax, and enjoy the story.

[09:24] Meg: Love it. In 1987, Jackie Adams, a 22 year old model with the Ford Agency in New York, met and fell in love with John Andreotis. Her childhood had been very difficult. Her father died when she was little and her mother had mental health issues. And Jackie found herself at 15, living alone in Tampa Bay, Florida.

[09:52] Jessica: As if living alone wasn't bad enough.

[09:55] Meg: Right?

[09:56] Jessica: Tampa is a. It seems to be a hotbed of crazy.

[09:59] Meg: It's an interesting place, I will say that. Yeah. Pirate town. Oh, on the water.

[10:05] Jessica: Interest setting the tone early.

[10:09] Meg: She was working at a McDonald's. She was babysitting. And she was also working at the front desk of a photo studio. One day, the model the photo studio had hired didn't show up. So the photographer asked his very pretty girl, who is at the front desk of his studio, can we just use you? Would that be okay? And Jackie stepped in. The shots that he took of her were so striking, he sent them directly to Eileen Ford. Wow. And Jackie was signed immediately. There was even a newspaper article about Eileen Ford going, this is my newest find.

[10:50] Jessica: That's crazy.

[10:51] Meg: I know, it's pretty crazy. And she moved to New York. It was 1981, and she was 17 years old. Soon she was on the COVID of Vogue, Glamour, Elle, and Cosmopolitan magazines. And she was the face of Estee Lauder.

[11:09] Jessica: Wait, timeout. I'm sorry, what was in 1987?

[11:13] Meg: That's when she fell in love.

[11:14] Jessica: Okay, so she did the photo shoot in 80 once. Now we're getting the backstory. Backstory. Got it. Okay, following.

[11:22] Meg: Now, despite her success, Jackie felt something was missing. She was valued for how she looked, not who she was.

[11:32] Jessica: I so feel her pain. That is Jackie. I feel you. Please continue.

[11:41] Meg: So, yes, she was not valued or she didn't feel she was valued for who she was or what she believed. And that ultimately left her feeling uneasy and unsatisfied. Then she read a book by Ruth Montgomery called Aliens Among Us. Now, books about UFO sightings and other psychic phenomena were very popular. You've talked about that a Little bit.

[12:07] Jessica: Indeed.

[12:08] Meg: And many people were not embarrassed to admit they believed in extraterrestrial life. It wasn't unheard of.

[12:15] Jessica: No. Do you like that? I'm trying. I'm validating what you're saying.

[12:20] Meg: Ruth Montgomery was a well respected political reporter in D.C. before she transitioned into writing about metaphysical and new age subjects. In Aliens Among Us, she interviews and discusses a number of quote, benevolent aliens residing on Earth in human form for the purpose of assisting humanity during a critical time.

[12:45] Jessica: Wishful thinking.

[12:48] Meg: One entire 60 page chapter is about Frederick Von Mears.

[12:55] Jessica: Wait, 60 page chapter?

[12:58] Meg: Yeah.

[12:58] Jessica: Oh, God, how do you even get through that? Break it up, Ruth. All right.

[13:04] Meg: In that chapter, Freddie talks about how he is a walk in. That's capital W. Capital I. He discusses how he once had an extremely high fever and was close to death. During this period, his human soul left his body and was replaced by an alien or walk in. He still remembers his human childhood and all the events leading up to his walk in, but now also has the knowledge of the universe.

[13:38] Jessica: That's so convenient. I. You know what I want to be? Seriously, Meg, I'm not joking. I want to be someone who is A, delusional and B, so well, but the delusion has to be that I'm amazing, right? And unique and really special and of great value to you.

[13:57] Meg: A happy delusion.

[13:57] Jessica: Yeah, like. Like a. But a happy, powerful delusion. And then be so self promoting along with that to. To say something like that out loud. Could you imagine? Just imagine like you're on.

[14:12] Meg: Honestly, I. I do. I think about it too because I mean, it might be kind of cool to be a cult leader. I mean, that's really what you're saying?

[14:20] Jessica: Well, it's two things. The first is being.

[14:22] Meg: I just don't think I have it

[14:23] Jessica: in me, which makes me happy being a happy lunatic. First is it sounds very relaxing to be a happy lunatic. But secondly, it's just. I'm just thinking about like, where's the leap? And I think it's the lunacy, frankly, where you're going to be like, I believe this thing. And by the way, when you have a high fever like that, your brain's a little cooked. So to not even have a moment's reflection and then to be like, oh, no, no, it's I'm an alien. Book me on Springer. I'm going to really sell, sell this.

[14:56] Meg: Right, but we're in the honeymoon period of all of this.

[15:00] Jessica: I just mean like having conviction. Having conviction about yourself is what. Yes. And it doesn't matter if it's, you know, like, I don't want to have to be like, no, I'm the best writer in the world because there are a lot of people who are going to debate me. But if I'm like, I am actually a golem, but I don't look like a rock or clay. I look like a person. But I have unbelievable powers of strength. I'm just not using them on you. Like, that would be amazing. I just captured my imagination.

[15:30] Meg: I hear you, and I think you're right. I think it would be amazing for a certain period of time. And I think at some point your delusion would catch up with you and you would become paranoid and abusive and. And you would not be happy anymore.

[15:45] Jessica: I have a feeling that this is a spoiler alert for what's about to happen.

[15:49] Meg: That's actually what usually happens to all these people. I'm just saying, like, you can't actually keep that honeymoon period going. There does seem to be a cycle. I mean, I know we don't like to talk about it all the time,

[16:02] Jessica: but the rotting pumpkin. Yes, yes.

[16:05] Meg: For example, yes. Not a happy person. But you hear what I'm saying? There's a pattern.

[16:11] Jessica: Yes.

[16:11] Meg: A cycle and paranoia. Not good.

[16:14] Jessica: It hurts on the inside.

[16:16] Meg: All right, back to Ruth and her book Aliens Among Us. Her book was very popular and did a lot to legitimize Freddie's reputation as a respected figure in the new age world. After reading it, Sammy Hagar of Van Halen was inspired to write the song Love Walks In.

[16:37] Jessica: Shut up.

[16:39] Meg: I knew you would love that.

[16:41] Jessica: I. I feel we're done for the day. Like, we're not gonna strong. No, but that is

[16:49] Meg: up comes walking in.

[16:53] Jessica: Now, I'm very familiar with your Broadway stylings, but I've never heard your Sammy Hagar stylings. I am impressed and so glad that I declined because you wouldn't have stepped in. Brava.

[17:06] Meg: All right. And Jackie was also intrigued by what she read. And she knew Hoyt Richards from the modeling scene. And he introduced her to Freddy's group of admirers called Eternal Values. This group of beautiful young people all lived at 405 East 54th street in a few different apartments in the building. Freddy lived in 4N with his closest advisors who slept on yoga mats around the apartment. John Andreotis was his right hand man. John grew up in New York and was the son of agent Barbara Andreitis and John Andre, the creator of Mantan Self tanning Lotion.

[17:57] Jessica: You know, sometimes you talk about products on this show and I Need to know more about Man.

[18:05] Meg: Yeah, it was the original self tanning lotion and it was for men, but.

[18:09] Jessica: But I'm wondering why he cut his market in half.

[18:14] Meg: Yeah, I don't know.

[18:14] Jessica: Like, doesn't it. And. And she was an agent of what? Variety?

[18:18] Meg: Actors. I had a meeting with her when I was first came to New York in the 90s.

[18:22] Jessica: Stop it.

[18:23] Meg: Yeah.

[18:23] Jessica: Oh, my God.

[18:24] Meg: That's so very respectable agent.

[18:26] Jessica: She's like, I represent the finest of the finest. And here's man 10 on my arm. So crazy. Okay, I'm excited. Continue.

[18:35] Meg: When John was 16, he was looking through the shelves at Quest Bookshop. I know quest between 2nd and 3rd. I'm gonna say that again. 53rd street between 2nd and 3rd. And I said it again because it's still there.

[18:49] Jessica: Yes. You know who introduced me to that bookstore?

[18:51] Meg: Tell me.

[18:52] Jessica: My brother, who was really into all things metaphysical and cuckoo.

[18:57] Meg: Okay, well, isn't that interesting because. Yes. John was only 16 when he was hanging out at Quest.

[19:06] Jessica: So that's the age when they get them because they're curious and if they're smart, they pursue it, they find it.

[19:12] Meg: Right. Oh, my God. I think John Andreatus is actually like your brother John's age.

[19:19] Jessica: Do we know where he. Do we know where he prepped?

[19:22] Meg: I couldn't find it. He has done a little scrubbing.

[19:27] Jessica: Interesting.

[19:28] Meg: And I don't blame him because he was very much enmeshed in eternal values for a long, long period of time.

[19:38] Jessica: His parents must have been mortified.

[19:40] Meg: Oh, his mother, Barbara is quoted in the Vanity Fair article saying that he was acting like a zombie. She was completely freaking out.

[19:48] Jessica: Good God.

[19:49] Meg: So John had been interested in Hindu philosophy since he was 13 and had read extensively about metaphysical phenomena. Quest Bookshop was one of his favorite haunts. On this day, 1979, Frederick von Mears approached him and asked what his birthday was. When John told him, Freddy gave him an astrological reading and told him, quote, startling things about my life. Then Freddy invited him to his apartment, which was not far away. John recalled it, quote, it was Zen. It was so beautiful. All this pale blue lacquer. I thought, this is a holy place. A year later, I mean, all it

[20:39] Jessica: took was interior design.

[20:42] Meg: Actually, the interior design was a big part of eternal.

[20:46] Jessica: Interesting.

[20:47] Meg: A year later, John ran into Freddy again. And this time, Freddy told him that he, John, was put on Earth for a mission. And then Freddy offered to teach him how to do astrological readings. Also in the Vanity Fair article, they talk about how when These guys are 15, 16, years old. Their ego is in a really interesting place. So they're super smart. They're really looking for something. They're really searching for something their ego allows them to believe. Somebody telling them, you are really special.

[21:28] Jessica: Did I tell you that my brother, during that exact same time period, was ordering? Because this is, you know, back in the Stone Ages, he was in. In addition to going to the Magical Child and Quest and East West Bookshop, he would order things, order pamphlets and information through the mail. And my parents intercepted some of the mail, recognized it as cult material and confiscated it.

[22:00] Meg: Jessica, it very well might have been Eternal Values materials because that's when they started really raking in the money, was by selling pamphlets and charts and audio tapes and astrological readings. That's when it became a business.

[22:19] Jessica: I gotta say, no matter what they did or didn't know, Sandy and Bert had a sixth sense for bullshit. So John was yanked away from the scariest of the scaries.

[22:31] Meg: And can I say that we also heard from another mutual friend who barely escaped Eternal Values because his father lived in that same building and he was a young, attractive teenage boy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[22:47] Jessica: I mean.

[22:47] Meg: I mean, it's good to be a.

[22:49] Jessica: An aware parent. I think that's the takeaway here.

[22:52] Meg: Oh, God, no. I'm just like, I think I've escaped that my kids are too old for.

[22:57] Jessica: Your kids are too old for that. No, your kids have aged out of that.

[23:00] Meg: I. I mean, Billy's only 18, but

[23:04] Jessica: he's such a cynic.

[23:06] Meg: True.

[23:07] Jessica: I mean, come on, if anyone's going to be the cult leader, you full. You know full well it's actually going to be Billy. Yeah, and we've been talking about that for a decade, so I think you're good.

[23:19] Meg: Soon John was acting as Freddy's spokesperson, and he was a true believer. He took all of Freddy's guidance to heart. He avidly stuck to the strict diet. He studied astrology assiduously. He eschewed romance and sexual relationships. Freddie would give his followers tapes to listen to quote, don't become a cock worshiper. Beware. The path of the razor's edge is sharp. So this is during this sort of monastic period of eternal values.

[23:55] Jessica: I need you to read that again just for my fun.

[23:57] Meg: Please don't become a cock worshiper. Beware. The path of the razor's edge is sharp.

[24:04] Jessica: That is so evocative, and it creates such a vivid mental image that I just want you to reflect on for a second. Cock worshiping on the razor's edge. That's like, ugh.

[24:19] Meg: John appeared with Freddie on his Eternal Values cable access show and provided most of the astrological readings the group sold to people who wrote in. And it was John who contacted Ruth Montgomery about featuring Freddy in her book. Freddy and John met with Ruth, and she was convinced Freddy was one of the aliens she wanted to write about. Aliens Among Us catapulted Freddy into the mainstream of the New age scene. And that's what helped convince Jackie to check out the organization. She attended a seminar and saw, quote, a young man who was so attractive, I knew it had to be John Andreotis. I decided not to let the moment pass, and I introduced myself. Before I go any further. Remember how I told you in the previous episode that Hoyt Richards went with a friend of his to his commercial agent, and that's when he was discovered?

[25:21] Jessica: It was John.

[25:22] Meg: It was John.

[25:23] Jessica: Stop it.

[25:24] Meg: So Jackie introduces herself to John, and the feeling was mutual. John fell hook, line and sinker for beautiful, quiet Jackie. When John did Jackie's astrological chart, he told her their two charts were twin flames. They were meant to be together. Four days after they met, Jackie broke up with her fiance, another New York model. Now, Freddy preached no romance, no sex, but he couldn't stop John and Jackie. They were in love. Freddy was furious and jealous. He tried to break them apart and came down hard on Jackie, calling her shallow and stupid. But ultimately, he had to accept that they were together. Then he tried milking her of her money. She was a very successful model and had a lot of cash to hand over. She agreed to rent an apartment in the 405 Building for Eternal Values and invested thousands of dollars in gems and crystals that Freddy prescribed for her. They were supposed to protect her from the apocalypse and make her, quote, bearable.

[26:44] Jessica: That's. Oh, misogyny. Yeah, that's what you rear your head again. How charming.

[26:49] Meg: When Jackie and John got married, the floodgates of sexual tension in the group burst. Basically all, everyone wants to fuck each other.

[26:59] Jessica: They're all cute.

[27:00] Meg: They're all cute, but they've all been acting like monks, right? And then they're like, but those two get to be married. Oh, no, I. I'm sorry. I'm in. Something is gonna happen.

[27:10] Jessica: I.

[27:11] Meg: So what is Freddie gonna do? What would you do if you were the leader of this group?

[27:16] Jessica: I might turn it all on its head and say, I'm now going to be in charge of all of the sexual delights.

[27:23] Meg: That's exactly what happened.

[27:24] Jessica: Cult leader. Yes.

[27:27] Meg: So Freddy changed his approach to sex entirely. Now he told the followers they not only could have sex, they had to have sex all the time with anyone. He said, if you are not willing to go sit on a dildo in the middle of Fifth Avenue, he. That's a quote. Then you still have ego in you. So there's something about the sexual hedonism stripping people of their egos. Because it's just the body, it's not the soul. So allow the body to do whatever. It's, you know, it's a, it's a mind fuck.

[28:07] Jessica: But it's spectacular because if you think about it for a second, he is claiming that he's a walk in. So his body has been inhabited his whole relationship to the body. Now I understand it's not real, but whatever his, his, his shtick that it really is always about the body with him, isn't it? Right.

[28:30] Meg: Like, well, the body is separate from the.

[28:33] Jessica: Deny the body sex up the body. My body is a vessel for an alien. Like the body, it feels like it

[28:41] Meg: needs to be separate.

[28:42] Jessica: I, I'm hearing you. I think that he goes from it has to be separate to it has to be everything, but at the same time, like that's the mind fuck. The body is everything, but at the same time you can't be attached to it. You talked about this in the last episode that he was obsessed with beauty. So if that, that's another thing where he's body obsessed with.

[29:02] Meg: So one of the women talks about how she just had to have sex with whoever walked in the door. She had no choice.

[29:09] Jessica: So he's basically trafficking.

[29:11] Meg: Yeah.

[29:11] Jessica: Oh, completely not basically. He is now trafficking.

[29:14] Meg: Yeah.

[29:14] Jessica: Great.

[29:15] Meg: It was like trying to get someone to quit smoking by making them smoke five packs in one sitting. That was part of. It was just like over sex, over sex, over sex. So it becomes meaningless. And I think it was also an attempt to take the love out of it.

[29:30] Jessica: That's very astute. I agree.

[29:32] Meg: So they would still focus all of their adoration on Freddie. Diabolical. Yeah. Because like really, his worst nightmare is that people fall in love with each other because then he loses out on that love. In the meantime, Freddy was insisting that John do dozens of astrological readings a week, each of which cost $350. John was getting no sleep and he was starting to break. And Jackie was incredibly worried about him. She was okay with being berated by Freddy. She was pretty used to that. But she couldn't handle seeing John suffer.

[30:13] Jessica: Oh, nice, nice wife.

[30:15] Meg: Yeah. She convinced John to question Freddy's abusive tactics. This led to an explosive confrontation in Freddy's apartment, where Freddy flew into a rage, hitting John in the face.

[30:32] Jessica: Not the face in the face. In the money maker.

[30:34] Meg: And screaming, go back to your wife. Your wife is a witch.

[30:39] Jessica: Witches, aliens. It's exciting.

[30:42] Meg: John and Jackie escaped, but still believed Freddy was supernatural. They just needed to get away from him. But they didn't think he was like, human or anything. So they were still terrified.

[30:54] Jessica: A malevolent e. T. Yeah.

[30:56] Meg: So they were terrified he would come after them. And then Jackie had an idea. She contacted the DA's office and explained to them about the gemstones. As we talked about in the last episode, it turned out that Freddy had been illegally assessing them at a much higher rate with the help of a jeweler on 47th Street. She agreed to go undercover and meet with that jeweler, which then provided the evidence the DA needed to go after Freddy. Jackie, Jackie, Jackie.

[31:30] Jessica: But this is interesting because you said they. They got. They had to get away, but they still thought he was an alien. But even the lure of his alien status wasn't enough to make them have any connection at all anymore. They were just like, fuck you, we're done.

[31:46] Meg: They would definitely fuck you. We're done. But we're terrified because you have special powers and you're going to come after us.

[31:53] Jessica: But the DA's office can protect us from your special powers. This is fantastic magical thinking.

[32:00] Meg: She also couldn't believe. Here she had been in this community of models and other people who had been talking about eternal values for years. And she's like, you knew this was going on. You knew that all of this awful stuff was happening behind closed doors and nobody's warning anybody.

[32:21] Jessica: Who's the you that she's upset with?

[32:23] Meg: Everybody. The whole community. Like the Ford modeling community, the fashion world. Like, everybody who knew Freddie knew he was horrible, but nobody was exposing him.

[32:35] Jessica: Interesting.

[32:36] Meg: So she thought. Yeah. I mean, she still thought he was an alien, but she thought he was

[32:40] Jessica: a horrible alien and that Eileen Ford was gonna. Is holding the bag on this or

[32:47] Meg: that somebody had to expose it instead of just sweeping it under the rug.

[32:51] Jessica: Okay. So she's like, enough of the silence. It's time.

[32:54] Meg: It's time.

[32:54] Jessica: I'm gonna. I'm. But smart lady that she went in by. By the jewels instead of. He's a just a creepy weird alien. The DA can't prosecute that.

[33:04] Meg: Prosecute that.

[33:05] Jessica: I love, but I love that she's like, we're gonna get the alien with the New York. Right on.

[33:11] Meg: Oh, and also, ha ha ha. She talked to the reporter at Vanity Fair, and so she gave an extensive interview, as did John. The Vanity Fair article came out, quoting Jackie and John extensively.

[33:24] Jessica: What year is this now?

[33:26] Meg: It's 1990. That's when the article came out. Yeah, that makes sense, because that's also when, as we know, Freddie died. So from my last episode about Eternal Values, Cult of Beauty and Guerrilla Galleries, that Vanity Fair article blew the lid off Eternal Values. But it was somewhat moot because Freddie died of AIDS five days before the article came out. Hoyt Richards, you remember.

[33:55] Jessica: Oh, yes, Hoyt.

[33:56] Meg: We feel bad for Hoyt, don't we? Well, his modeling career soared in the wake of the article, but Jackie's fizzled. Hoyt and Jackie met once more on set a year after the article came out. It was for a print ad. They were supposed to pose as an elegant married couple who could afford to buy Christmas presents at Lord and Taylor. Hoyt, still a true believer, mocked Jackie, mercilessly laughed in her face. He'd been telling everyone who asked that the Vanity Fair article was all lies. Do I look like someone who believes he's an alien?

[34:40] Jessica: Yes, Hoyt. Yes, you do.

[34:43] Meg: Hoyt had recruited Jackie into Eternal Values, and now he felt betrayed by her and was going to make her suffer. Jackie says that shoot was miserable, but she got through it. And her career as a model was pretty much over shortly after that. But she says she never once regretted being the whistleblower on Frederick Von Meer's. And for his part, Hoyt has a whole lot of regrets.

[35:13] Jessica: Does he now?

[35:14] Meg: Oh, yeah. He's still very fragile.

[35:18] Jessica: I'm going to be a good person right now by actively not saying anything about his fragility. It takes a woman. Well done, Jackie. Did Jackie and John Andreotis stay together?

[35:31] Meg: No, they did not. She talks about how they'd gone through this incredibly stressful situation, and when they came out the other side, it was like they were best friends. But the only thing they had in common was this awful thing they had gone through.

[35:50] Jessica: Trauma, bond.

[35:51] Meg: Not enough to. To build a life on. So she ended up having the marriage annulled. And he. John. I looked him up. He is married with children. He had absolutely nothing to do with the documentary. She's interviewed extensively and she speaks very kindly of John. And they show footage of him when he was a young man. But he recovered and he doesn't want to talk about it.

[36:17] Jessica: And who could blame him?

[36:19] Meg: No, who could blame him?

[36:20] Jessica: Fascinating. Thank you, Meg. I found that very entertaining. So, Meg, I'm sure you're aware of the fact that there's been a big shift in New York politics thanks to our mayor.

[36:44] Meg: A little more socialist.

[36:46] Jessica: Yes, we have had many more socialists. And very interesting, because his sway has really been felt now, and that's a big deal. Are there any other politicians that you like to talk about? Because there's one I like to talk about. Ooh, who?

[37:02] Meg: What? Your friend and mine.

[37:05] Jessica: Part two, Vito Bruno. Oh, my goodness.

[37:08] Meg: We have more about Vito Bruno.

[37:10] Jessica: We. We do.

[37:11] Meg: Oh, can I just tell you, you know how I was making clips out of the episode that we filmed? It happened to be the episode where you talked about Vito Bruno, and I put a clip when you're talking about him up on the YouTube. I just did that.

[37:27] Jessica: This. Am so excited. Continuity alert.

[37:31] Meg: Crazy.

[37:31] Jessica: Yay.

[37:32] Meg: Mind meld.

[37:33] Jessica: Well, for those of you who did not listen to the episode, Vito Bruno was a nightclub impresario who then wanted to become a politician. And really a very weird character. Did a little digging and found out a lot more about why his political campaign failed. Ooh, okay, interesting.

[37:58] Meg: And he's the opposite of a socialist. Correct.

[38:01] Jessica: Oh, just you wait.

[38:02] Meg: Yay.

[38:03] Jessica: Yes.

[38:04] Meg: Story time.

[38:04] Jessica: Indeed. Story time. So I first learned of Vito Bruno from the Gale Wynn Massey blog spot. Here's a closer look at the ratto. Vito Bruno of the past. So a lot of this blog that I relied on is. I'm gonna just admit it's quite biased.

[38:26] Meg: Okay. Does not like Vito.

[38:28] Jessica: Does not. No. Not a fan. Not a fan.

[38:31] Meg: But is it a personal thing or a theoretical thing?

[38:34] Jessica: I think it's a personal thing that. That flows from the hatred of this person's politics and past. Okay.

[38:43] Meg: It's political and.

[38:45] Jessica: And personal. Vito's not a very conscientious, upstanding character. That's not hard to be when you're in the nightclub world of New York City. Now, Vito originally came up because I was interested in the outlaw parties of the 80s. And, you know, we even had our friend, BFF of the podcast Nick, tell us about the party that happened in a truck that he attended.

[39:15] Meg: Right. So just to catch people up. Outlaw parties were sort of pop up parties that would happen in all kinds of crazy, like under a bridge or in a McDonald's. Like a flash mob party.

[39:26] Jessica: And frequently drug fueled.

[39:28] Meg: Okay. And music definitely.

[39:31] Jessica: All hail. The dj.

[39:32] Meg: Got it.

[39:33] Jessica: Definitely.

[39:34] Meg: And Vito was behind all of that.

[39:37] Jessica: He was behind a lot of the outlaw parties. So he was well aware of the fact there's money to be made from moving drugs and there's money to be Made by moving drugs, by putting a party together where you are not responsible for insurance paying people properly, like, all of those things. So as an impresario, you know, it was a good idea while it lasted. What I learned is a little bit more about the clubs that Vito. The legit clubs that Vito managed.

[40:09] Meg: Now, was he doing outlaw parties at the same time that he was managing?

[40:13] Jessica: Yes. We also talked about how I'm fairly certain that he had the Internet scrubbed of a lot of his stuff.

[40:21] Meg: Well, if you're gonna be a politician, you better scrub.

[40:25] Jessica: To quote Gus Van Zandt's My Own Private Idaho scrub, Little Dutch boy scrub. As. As I said on the last podcast, he started his career at 2001 Odyssey in Brooklyn, otherwise known as the set of Saturday Night Fever. But he was running around in Brooklyn and Queens with a bunch of clubs. He eventually winds up at Glamorama. This is a club that he creates. Have you heard of Glamorama?

[40:57] Meg: I have.

[40:58] Jessica: Do you remember how?

[41:00] Meg: No. It must just be in passing with all of our 80s New York City research.

[41:05] Jessica: It was located at 229 W 28th St in Manhattan. There is only one article on the entire Internet that mentions Glamorama, which was a big club in New York. The article's in the Wall Street Journal, and it's basically a roundup of clubs. Bruno continued his life as a club promoter with the infamous after hours joint a.m. p. M. It was frequented by John Belushi and other members of the cast.

[41:35] Meg: Okay.

[41:36] Jessica: Vito Bruno was quoted and well known for being part of feeding Belushi and the cast members drugs.

[41:44] Meg: Well, if it's an after hours club, yeah, I think that would be kind of the whole point.

[41:48] Jessica: And was quoted and I will find it and we can reference it, but that he provided Belushi with cocaine, an eight ball, or a Black Betty, something I think that involved heroin. So I can't believe my drug knowledge is dipping at the moment. But that's a.m. p.m. So he had a partner. As I move forward into part three, we're gonna look into his partner.

[42:13] Meg: There's gonna be part three.

[42:14] Jessica: Oh, this is going on and on because it's just juice. It's just like if you can keep squeezing the lemon, squeeze it. So he had a partner named Gene Dino, and with Gene Dinino, he was involved in the Roxy Roller rink.

[42:35] Meg: Oh, we love the Roxy.

[42:37] Jessica: We do love the Roxy. I had never heard this phrase, but it was referred to as the Studio 54 of roller rinks. And get a load of this. Thanks to Ruza Blue, who was involved in the hip hop world. I think she was a dj. Did you know that the Roxy was where a lot of hip hop acts broke?

[42:59] Meg: I don't think I did know that.

[43:01] Jessica: Nor did I. Oh, she was the founder of Club Negril 1981-1982. She got hip hop.

[43:09] Meg: I do know who she is. I did read up on her. I think I listened to a podcast about her.

[43:13] Jessica: Hip hop, funk, soul, disco, electro. That's what she brought in. She brought in the Rocksteady Crew, Fab 5, Freddy, Double Dutch.

[43:22] Meg: Yes, I know who you're talking about.

[43:23] Jessica: The white rap, spoken word. A, E, I, O, U, and sometimes Y. Remember that? From Eben Ozen. That was up to her. And there were tons of parties, particularly gay nights promoted by John Blair Promotions, which I think is what we were familiar with. Like, we're like, the Roxy's a gay club. No, it wasn't.

[43:42] Meg: Okay.

[43:42] Jessica: It was only.

[43:43] Meg: They just had certain nights.

[43:44] Jessica: Exactly. Now, during the late 80s, this is what fascinated me. Did you know that the Roxy continued into the 90s when it closed, but in the late 80s, it switched over. It was a different club and it was called 1018. And it was owned and promoted by Jean Danino and Vito Bruno. Okay. And it was closed down in 1989 as a nuisance by the New York City Office of Midtown Enforcement for underage drinking, drug sales and violence. Do you know when you're walking on the High Line, how there's that building where it has, like, these big glass bay windows? It's a fishbowl. So as you're walking on the High Line, you can be like, hey, nice artwork on your walls. I might steal it. Like, it's hanging right over it. Like. Yeah, okay. That's called the Lantern Building because of the windows. That's the building.

[44:48] Meg: Okay.

[44:49] Jessica: It's West 18th Street. Yeah, it's, I think, 11th Avenue now.

[44:53] Meg: Do you know what it is?

[44:54] Jessica: That's what it is. The Lantern Building.

[44:55] Meg: What's in it?

[44:56] Jessica: It's a high rise.

[44:58] Meg: People live there.

[44:59] Jessica: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that building. That's why it's so crazy to me. The first time I was on the high rise and I saw that that building was there, I was like, who would want an apartment where you. If you had, instead of this bay window, French doors, you would walk, you'd step right out onto the High Line. It doesn't feel safe to me. I don't like it. Going back to Vito Bruno and why this person hates him so much. This Gale, or Gale Win. Which all comes to his 2020 attempt to get elected to the Senate. But this person reminds us that in 1983. And this is one of the articles that I talked about before. Vito Bruno to the New York Times in an article about police corruption and police being bought off by club owners. For all of the shenanigans that were going on, Vito Bruno admitted to doing this and to paying off the police. Nothing happened to him. And we wonder why. Continue to pay off the police a lot more, I'm thinking.

[46:06] Meg: I mean, is that a bad look for him or the police or both? I mean, what's his point?

[46:11] Jessica: I think it's both. That he bragged about how generous he was. That was his shtick. So this is a mental case.

[46:17] Meg: The police love me because I pay them off.

[46:19] Jessica: Doesn't that sound like the rotting orange pumpkin kind of thing to say?

[46:23] Meg: Yeah.

[46:24] Jessica: All of this is in stark contrast to his attempts to make himself in 2020 into a law and order candidate. In his bid to be a law and order conservative candidate, he aligned himself with Trump, despite having hired gang members to work his soirees in the past.

[46:43] Meg: So conservative means nothing?

[46:45] Jessica: Fuck, no. It just means less conscience, more interest in winning the any by any means possible. Also found out that Bruno tried politics in 2017 and failed trying to be the Brooklyn Borough President, even though he had Curtis Sliwa's support. That went nowhere.

[47:07] Meg: I have a soft spot for Curtis. Did I tell you that I saw him in real life?

[47:11] Jessica: Wait, did I tell you that I did, too?

[47:13] Meg: He's out and about. And he also showed up for Mamdani's ceremony when he. When he was inaugurated.

[47:21] Jessica: Well, clearly, Sliwa will show up at the opening of an envelope to show

[47:25] Meg: up at your competitor's inauguration.

[47:28] Jessica: No, he just knew people would be there and he'd get a photo op.

[47:31] Meg: Give him a little bit more credit.

[47:33] Jessica: I love that you see the world that way.

[47:35] Meg: I don't think he should have elected office, don't get me wrong. But I love him as a New York character.

[47:40] Jessica: As a New York character, I agree with you. As a. As a sign of where ethics lie. No, he's a lying liar. Okay, okay. Yes. In his 2020 bid, things started to go very poorly for Vito Bruno when it became evident that part of his. Now, remember, I said conservative and Trump loving and all of that. He was running on a racist campaign.

[48:03] Meg: Oh, beautiful.

[48:05] Jessica: Right? He says it's the culture that's the problem. Statistics. This is a quote from him from the Daily News. And statistics will Show. And I know they'll turn it into a racial thing, which I do not want to. I do not want to. But statistics show that households that don't have a father, the crime and all that is through the roof.

[48:28] Meg: You know what that sounds like to me? Yes. Reagan era bullshit.

[48:33] Jessica: Yes, 100%. Which is why I've been saying since we.

[48:37] Meg: Welfare mother propaganda. Welfare queen. Welfare queen propaganda.

[48:41] Jessica: Yes. One of his. The people running against him said that Bruno is trying to run a campaign off of racist dog whistles that he hopes no one will notice. But guess what? Everybody's noticed. Now, as if that weren't bad enough, now I'm going to take you to who would be closest to Bruno, who would be the person super close to Bruno that might be an indicator of other things that he thinks and believes. Ooh, his wife. During his 2020 campaign, Edie Falco, the actress, started speaking up about what a piece of shit he is.

[49:20] Meg: Fascinating.

[49:21] Jessica: Yes. And I'm going to quote from now Realvito Bruno 2020, the parksidegroup.com.

[49:31] Meg: he's got a lot of enemies.

[49:32] Jessica: A lot of enemies. I'm quoting Vito Bruno wants to represent our community, so I assume that's where Edie Falco lives in Brooklyn. But he goes door to door through our neighborhoods campaigning with a vile anti Semite who believes, quote, Hitler was right. What? One of Bruno's biggest supporters uses social media to praise a vicious murderer like Hitler and has even gone as far as posting a swastika on Twitter. Anti Semitism has no place in southern Brooklyn and certainly has no place in state government.

[50:06] Meg: But wait, they're talking about somebody who's campaigning with him. Who is that?

[50:10] Jessica: And it's his wife. Oh, who? I Then I found out it was his wife because I also found articles saying that she had been posting this kind of stuff on Instagram. Oh, no, lady. Yeah. And so that's hard to scrub. It's so hard to scrub. I thought it was going to be hard to find stuff about him, but because it was like, oh, it's all his political stuff. But no, he couldn't scrub what his opponents were putting out there anyway. Vito Bruno, just such a shining example of. I'm trying to put this in just the right way. Nightlife attracts people who love to party. It also attracts people who want to earn a lot of fast money, and a lot of fast money comes the wrong way. And that comes also by being a criminal. So that is the Vito Bruno story so far. But even once he started his campaign and he lost As I think we already know. But he ran on a campaign of hate and proclaimed it was not. So stay tuned for part three, because I'm now just so in love with, like, every time you turn the page, there's something worse. Delightful. He is the lemon. He is the lemon of infinite juice.

[51:41] Meg: So, Jessica, one of our BFFs, Michael. Different Michael wrote in.

[51:47] Jessica: How many. Wait, how many Michaels are there now?

[51:49] Meg: Actually, I think we have five or six.

[51:50] Jessica: Oh, fabulous.

[51:51] Meg: But it's not the Michael you're probably thinking of. Okay, so he writes in and he says, I have an idea. It might be a bad idea. It might be a good idea. I thought it was a great idea.

[52:01] Jessica: You personally thought it was a great idea? I didn't know if that was him saying, I think it's a great idea. If that was your editorial, I'm saying

[52:08] Meg: it's a great idea.

[52:09] Jessica: Fantastic.

[52:09] Meg: And let's hear it. Told him it was a great idea, and I think you're gonna agree. He said, have you ever thought about people sending in voicemails of stories from New York city in the 80s? And then we can respond to the stories after we play them on the podcast.

[52:30] Jessica: What an interesting format shift, right?

[52:33] Meg: So we'll listen to their story and then have a response to it.

[52:35] Jessica: You know what I'm hearing in that? What? Less work, more fun.

[52:40] Meg: Well, nothing's ever left.

[52:42] Jessica: I know, I know. Let me fantasize.

[52:45] Meg: Let me just make the call out to everybody. We'll start collecting voicemails from people. I will also put this on the Instagram and remind people. And maybe you and I can reach out to some people we think might have stories. Let's collect a bunch of stories and let's do a segment. Step one, message me either through the website or through the Instagram, and we'll talk about the details. We've had people record things into their phone before. It sounds fine. Reach out if you have a story and we'll take it from there.

[53:19] Jessica: Hot, hot. Action. I love this idea, Michael. Thank you. What fun. And I love the engagement. I love the next step of engagement. Woo.

[53:31] Meg: What's our tie in false identities?

[53:34] Jessica: Not really an alien. Not really a nice guy. Okay, there you go.

[53:38] Meg: I'll take it.

[53:38] Jessica: Okay.