[00:16] Meg: Welcome to Desperately Seeking the 80s. I am Meg.

[00:19] Jessica: And I'm Jessica. And Meg and I have been friends since 1982. We got through middle school and high school together here in New York City, where we still live and where we.

[00:29] Meg: Podcast about New York city in the 80s, I do Ripped From the Headlines.

[00:33] Jessica: And I do Pop Culture.

[00:35] Meg: As promised, this is our audio episode of The More We Know, The More We Know. So how about I'll do a fact and then you'll do a fact and then we'll do a little break and then you do a fact. I do a fact.

[00:55] Jessica: I mean we have. This is a new format for us. So let's just see.

[00:58] Meg: Let's see how it goes.

[00:59] Jessica: What happens.

[00:59] Meg: Very exciting.

[01:02] Jessica: Do. Jessica, Meg.

[01:10] Meg: Did you know that Michael Kors was just 21 when he launched his first clothing label in 1981? And his seamstresses worked out of his living room and he slept under his rolling racks and he delivered the clothes by subway to Burgdorf's. And his first collection was an 18 piece collection of white crepe de chine dresses and leather separate. And I took a picture that I wanted to show you that you can describe if you so choose.

[01:47] Jessica: I can't even. Can you believe that? Oh, my God. First off, barely recognizable. He's a kid. He is. He is an absolute. With curly, curly, curly hair, just mop topped. Adorable. But wearing the New York City never goes out of style uniform of jeans, black Converse, a white T shirt underneath a. An oxford, a blue oxford shirt with a tweed blazer. He looks like every boy we ever. No, ever.

[02:22] Meg: And would you wear those outfits?

[02:24] Jessica: I would, I wouldn't. Well, the one that wear. Yeah, the one that's super peasant y, that's off the shoulder is very of that moment. I don't know if I would wear with the culottes. Okay. No, not that one. That's a little. No, but the other one, you know. Yeah. I mean, it's just, it's a, it's a plunging neckline top with white pants. I mean, the thing about them really is that they look very Halston.

[02:48] Meg: Huh?

[02:49] Jessica: I think they look very Halston.

[02:51] Meg: Much more streamlined. And Michael Kors is being more sort of resort wear.

[02:56] Jessica: It's the flowiness. It's the flowiness.

[02:59] Meg: You would wear that on an island. You wouldn't wear Halston on an island, would you?

[03:03] Jessica: What island am I on?

[03:05] Meg: Well, good point.

[03:06] Jessica: I don't know. I think that, I don't think that it's literally Halston, but I think that that, you know, the silk crepe, the flow, the plunging neckline, like, all of that stuff. And also the monochromatic thing. It just reminds me of Halston, which is fine. He was 21. Rip off Halston.

[03:29] Meg: Oh, is that what you're saying? Michael Korsdee.

[03:32] Jessica: I think he was inspired, but who isn't inspired by somebody? Be inspired and then move on and do your own thing. I think that's great. I think it's cute.

[03:43] Meg: I just. I was also just so inspired at the idea of this kid. This kid, like, sewing stuff in his living room and jumping on the subway.

[03:54] Jessica: He was the Christian Siriano. But by the way, I do think it's worth noting that he is tan in that photograph. So he has always been rather interested in. In a. In a tan.

[04:06] Meg: Oh, he looks so happy too.

[04:08] Jessica: He does. He's like.

[04:10] Meg: As far as I know, Michael Kors is a really nice gu.

[04:13] Jessica: I have no knowledge of him at all, except that he has cultivated this bitchy Persona for Project Runway. But other than that, like, who knows what he's really like?

[04:23] Meg: I mean, bitchy? I don't know. I. I would. I would say that it's more like he. He does a good turn of phrase.

[04:31] Jessica: That's what gets the people to turn on the television.

[04:35] Meg: But I don't think that he's cruel. I think he's accurate.

[04:41] Jessica: I think anytime there's a turn of phrase, whoever's on the receiving end may have another opinion about it.

[04:48] Meg: Fair enough. Fair enough.

[04:49] Jessica: But it's an adorable photograph and a great fact. Love it. Okay, your turn. Okay, so when we were growing up in the 80s, we were very familiar with the. What is the phrase that everyone uses to describe New York City? What's. What's the Big Apple? That's right. But do you know how the Big Apple came to be The. The phrase that pays?

[05:13] Meg: I don't know.

[05:13] Jessica: If I do, you won't believe it. So get ready for this one. So in the 1920s, there were horse races in New York that were, like, the big races, and. And if you won all of them, that was a big deal. So it wasn't the Triple Crown. There were more. So there was. I'm just laughing because where we are recording now, my office. Now that it's winter, it's so dark in here, I can't read my own notes. So this is great. So it was Belmont, Aqueduct, Yonkers Raceway, Saratoga, and what closed in 1959, Jamaica Racetrack. Okay, so if you won all of them, that was a big money prize. Now, this was a. This phrase was popularized in the 1920s because sports journalist John J. Fitzgerald referred to that winning those sporting events as winning the Big Apple. Okay, and now where did he get this? Did he come up with it himself? No, he did not. Guys who worked on the racetracks in New Orleans referred to this. And of course, those horses would go everywhere to race. They referred to that grouping of, like, difficult racetracks. There was, like, big races that you had to win. If you did the whole thing, you won the whole Big Apple. Now, maybe it's because horses eat apples, I don't know. But that was what the grooms referred.

[06:51] Meg: To this thing as New York race tracks.

[06:55] Jessica: New York. Winning those New York races was winning the Big Apple. Now, in the 1930s, jazz musicians used it to describe their scene in New York, that they were in the Big Apple. Now, interestingly, where did ja. Where was jazz born? Harlem. New Orleans.

[07:18] Meg: Oh, of course, sorry.

[07:19] Jessica: Jelly Roll Morton, New Orleans. But it migrated in the 20s and 30s up to Harlem. So those guys referred to New York City, the center of their scene, as the Big Apple, but it was still a fringe phrase. It wasn't like that's what everyone called New York. But in the 1970s, which we've been talking about a lot, when the city was bankrupt and we were trying. They were trying to revitalize interest and shine up, to polish. Polish the image of the city, there was an ad campaign taken out by New York City to promote it for tourism, calling it the Big Apple, which finally took root in the late 70s and early 80s.

[08:11] Meg: Really?

[08:12] Jessica: Really.

[08:13] Meg: So, like, your everyday guy wasn't calling New York the Big Apple until our childhood?

[08:19] Jessica: Correct. That's crazy town. Now, here's one other little thing that occurred to a friend who I was speaking to prior to doing this. He said, you know, New Orleans is the Big Easy. Ooh. And I was like, oh, so maybe that's like a New Orleans turn of phrase. Like, it's the big blah, blah, blah, the Big so and so. So the Big Easy actually gave birth to the Big Apple. Oof.

[08:47] Meg: So interesting. When the ball drops. Do you remember when it was an apple?

[08:52] Jessica: Yes.

[08:53] Meg: When was that? That must have been in the early 80s, I'm thinking.

[08:57] Jessica: But it didn't do it for long.

[08:59] Meg: Right.

[08:59] Jessica: It was like. It was a brief thing and. But what I think was weird. This is a whole other thing that we can. We can investigate, but the company that lit up the. The Ball that Drops, changed from the original one briefly, and then it went back to the original company and There is a whole lot of, like, family intrigue in those companies. So maybe this is pure conjecture. Maybe the. The other company that got the contract for a while decided to spiff it up. Who knows?

[09:36] Meg: This sounds like a story in our future. I want to know more.

[09:41] Jessica: I am going to research that, and I'm going to tell you about it. Yay.

[09:44] Meg: I can't wait.

[09:45] Jessica: How exciting. Do, do, do, do.

[09:53] Meg: Okay, you go first this time.

[09:55] Jessica: You know how I feel about pigeons.

[09:57] Meg: I know it's really sad, and, you know it's not their fault.

[10:01] Jessica: I do know it's not their fault. And. And I've learned a few things about pigeons since my last rant about. Ew.

[10:08] Meg: Ew.

[10:08] Jessica: Disgusting pigeon appreciation. Some pigeon appreciation. Basically, my appreciation boils down to it's not their fault. Okay, you know, what else are you gonna do? And you know, there is that. That lovely little mall seating area on Park Avenue between 96th and 97th street, which has been rendered unusable because idiots spread birdseed.

[10:35] Meg: And this is the second.

[10:37] Jessica: I know. I can't help it. Okay? No, you don't hate it. Okay, fine, fine, fine. So anyway, I don't like them, okay? But I'm trying to, as you know, and I'm. I've been sending you on Instagram, like, cute, fun facts about pigeons because I'm really trying. I want to find you on the level that of things that you love. So you're gonna like this. Okay? Did you know, Meg, that there is a law in New York City, which is a little. Stretching it a little bit, but it. It boils down to a law that you cannot pee on a pigeon.

[11:18] Meg: Oh, my God. Why is there a law?

[11:20] Jessica: Why? What happened exactly? Oh, my God, that's awful. So that's our next thing to research. However, here's what I can tell you. That there are statutes protecting wildlife in New York City right now. Again, I find this to be a little bit of a stretch, but the pigeons fall under this statute of wild.

[11:41] Meg: Yes, they do.

[11:42] Jessica: They're not wild life. That's like saying cockroaches are wildlife. They are. Okay, we can have a debate about this, but. But wildlife is protected.

[11:56] Meg: Good.

[11:56] Jessica: And so the pigeons fall under this. In fact, it's New York city administrative code 17.200 that says if it's a critter, you can't touch it, except for roaches and rodents. All right. There is also a public lewdness law, as I'm sure you know that. Public lewdness bad. I don't know the ordinance, but we all know if you, you know, stick, take your dick out, you're going to go to jail. Keep it in your pants, guys. So there's that. But who are the people most likely to pee on something in the great outdoors? Not ladies. No fellas. Right.

[12:37] Meg: So fellas, of someone of a woman trying to pee on a pigeon.

[12:42] Jessica: That's a woman with a lot of determination and grit and a lot of hatred in her heart. But not me. Not you, not me. No. No public lewdness so far for me. So public lewdness, no go. And finally, there is a no public urination statute. It's a thousand dollars fine or a year in jail. It's a misdemeanor. Yes. No peep. Which you wouldn't believe if you just go into the subway for 10 seconds and you're hit with a wall of urine smell.

[13:15] Meg: I feel like people pee outside all the time.

[13:17] Jessica: Well, they should all be fined.

[13:19] Meg: Yeah.

[13:20] Jessica: So in keeping with this is a throwback to our pooper scooper episode. But if the dog can't shit in the street, neither can you.

[13:29] Meg: All right, then.

[13:29] Jessica: Not a good thing. So if you put all of these codes together, you cannot pee on pigeons. And for some reason, for some reason, this is a thing all over the Internet that people are obsessed with, they've put it all together that you can't pee on a pigeon, which means someone did. So we're gonna find out who that was.

[13:52] Meg: Oh, no. If you peed on a pigeon, please write in.

[13:56] Jessica: Yeah, seriously, if, if, if. I don't know about our listenership, if it's the pigeon peers, but that's what I got.

[14:03] Meg: I, I, I feel like our listeners can be sleuths.

[14:07] Jessica: As long as you didn't do it. Please research it. Tell us about it.

[14:10] Meg: Yes, we need, we need the answers. Jessica. Mick, did you know that John Lennon saw a UFO from the Dakota at 9 o' clock on August 23, 1974? Did you know that? This is a quote, okay? It wasn't a helicopter and it wasn't a balloon and it was so near. He said it was silent, dark, round, black or gray, with blinking lights that look like light bulbs circumscribed on the sides and a red light on its top. That's very detailed. Another quote. It went down the river, turned right at the United nations, turned left and turned down the river. This says a few things to me.

[15:07] Jessica: LSD is the first thing it says to me.

[15:10] Meg: But also, the United nations is on 42nd street and the Dakota's on the West Side. So did he. How did he see it?

[15:19] Jessica: And the Dakota isn't that tall.

[15:22] Meg: It isn't that tall.

[15:24] Jessica: No. I think that good old John was still tripping from his Indian adventures. He was still experimenting, and maybe he saw a weather balloon and got really excited.

[15:38] Meg: Is the Dakota tall enough for you at that time to be able to see all the way to the United Nations?

[15:44] Jessica: Seems unlikely.

[15:46] Meg: Anyway, he took pictures of it, but they didn't come out.

[15:52] Jessica: El supreme, this is.

[15:54] Meg: Hold on. Actually, Jessica.

[15:56] Jessica: Okay, I will hold my skepticism.

[15:58] Meg: Okay. Because he did call the police and they confirmed that they had received other calls about a similar object in the sky.

[16:10] Jessica: Okay. Well, I guess that maybe he was having a party and all of his other tripping friends were like, did you see that? Yeah, I saw it. Well, John said that he saw. We don't want to go against John because he's the celebrity here. Yeah, John, we all saw it.

[16:27] Meg: I thought you believed in aliens.

[16:29] Jessica: I believe in the possibility of aliens, but I don't believe. I don't believe that. I just think it's. What is the probability that John Lennon was tripping balls and thinking that he could see the United nations from the Dakota?

[16:43] Meg: I mean, can you even see the east river from the.

[16:45] Jessica: No. You cannot? No. So, like, are you sure?

[16:50] Meg: How many floors does the Dakota have?

[16:52] Jessica: We'll look it up. Okay. But. But the Dakota.

[16:54] Meg: And the Dakota.

[16:56] Jessica: The Dakota was the first apartment building in New York City.

[17:01] Meg: Yeah.

[17:02] Jessica: And so the technology was not there.

[17:06] Meg: To make it to.

[17:07] Jessica: To make it that enormous. It just wasn't happening, I don't think.

[17:13] Meg: Right.

[17:14] Jessica: It seems unlikely. So maybe. Maybe we can get, like, fedoras and put in a little card that says press and go up to the guard at the Dakota and be like, ha. We're doing investigative journalism.

[17:29] Meg: It went down the river 50 years later, turned right at the United nations, turned left and turned down the river.

[17:39] Jessica: Turned right at the United Nations. So maybe he wasn't at the Dakota. But is he saying he was at the Dakota?

[17:47] Meg: He said he was at his Manhattan apartment.

[17:50] Jessica: Maybe he had another apartment in 1974.

[17:55] Meg: Maybe, maybe.

[17:57] Jessica: But I'm trying to find the probability.

[17:59] Meg: When he moved to New York. That is actually sort of interesting, isn't it?

[18:05] Jessica: Maybe. Because I remember that there was a big glass.

[18:08] Meg: He wasn't in New York yet. Maybe he was just visiting and. And he was in his apartment that he was just visiting. When did he move? Move.

[18:16] Jessica: What year did he do the love in with Yoko where they stayed in bed, which really is just the laziest protest I've ever heard about in my life. But, you know, everyone's like, out marching in the cold and he's like, I am going to protest from my bed in my pajamas. Well, not in pajamas, but, you know.

[18:34] Meg: Who knows a lot about John Lennon, like everybody else. Like, people are going to write in and tell us any.

[18:45] Jessica: Anyone but us. Okay, great. Thank God. It means less work for us. Please write in and tell us.

[18:52] Meg: Yeah.

[18:53] Jessica: Where was John lennon living in 1974?

[18:56] Meg: And solve this mystery. Down the river turns right.

[19:01] Jessica: Yeah. So if you're going. Yeah, no, it does. It just doesn't add up. Nope.

[19:05] Meg: You go down the river, turn right at the United nations, turn left. Do you end up at my house?

[19:11] Jessica: No, if you go. If you go down the East River. If you go down the east river, you do take a right because the. The United nations is directly on the river. So it's a bit much to say you take a right because you're just passing the United Nations. You don't like. So maybe the took a right at the un, but then you're going west.

[19:33] Meg: But then you take another left. He said so then it's like. So now you're going left town, First Avenue. So it took a right and then a left.

[19:40] Jessica: You're going downtown.

[19:41] Meg: We sound insane. So you keep going downtown. You do keep going downtown.

[19:46] Jessica: No, no, no, listen. If you're going down the east river and at the un, you take a right. Now you're going west.

[19:54] Meg: Yes. Right.

[19:55] Jessica: And then if you take a left, you're going. You're going downtown.

[19:58] Meg: Yes.

[19:58] Jessica: So it went west and downtown.

[20:00] Meg: Yes, so. So.

[20:01] Jessica: Still not hitting the Dakota.

[20:05] Meg: Oh, nowhere close.

[20:06] Jessica: Okay, so that's it. At least we know where this. We know where the rivers are that surround our own city. Score. Yeah.

[20:16] Meg: You end up at my apartment.

[20:18] Jessica: Well, no, because you. Well, we don't know how far west it went. How. How much did it go to the right before it took the left?

[20:26] Meg: I don't.

[20:27] Jessica: Because it could have gone all the way to the Hudson. Who knows? I'll draw you a picture. Hey, no, I mean. Okay, enough. See, John Lennon is a divisive character. Basta.

[20:42] Meg: Jessica.

[20:43] Jessica: Meg.

[20:44] Meg: Did you know that in 1987, the prison population was so out of control that Ed Koch took two of the Staten island ferries and used them for prison space? 162 inmates were put on each ferry and they were stationed off the coast of the Bronx until the late 1990s.

[21:08] Jessica: Without cells. They were just on the ferry.

[21:11] Meg: I think they.

[21:12] Jessica: This is Like Con Air. This is like, the worst episode, the worst version of Con Air ever. Con River. Like, I mean, I think he must.

[21:21] Meg: Have put cells in them.

[21:23] Jessica: Like, basically he just took. He.

[21:25] Meg: He absconded with two of the fairies and turned them into prison ships.

[21:29] Jessica: I want to see the build out.

[21:32] Meg: Yeah, me too. Guess how many fairies there are. Staten island fairies. There are totally.

[21:37] Jessica: He took two.

[21:38] Meg: He took two of them.

[21:39] Jessica: I'm gonna go with eight.

[21:40] Meg: There are nine.

[21:42] Jessica: Really?

[21:42] Meg: And guess how many are in use at any given time.

[21:46] Jessica: 4.

[21:46] Meg: 5.

[21:48] Jessica: Look at you. These are just guesses in the dark. I don't know what I'm saying. Pretty close. I'm counted since I don't. I'm just thinking about, like, how frequently you've got to go across. And if you've got one going and one coming, and then you need to have backups going.

[22:05] Meg: But isn't that crazy and that those fairies just, like, hung out in the. In the water?

[22:11] Jessica: Look, we know that Koch was a resourceful guy, so here you go. I don't. It's very weird. Prison ships. Prison ships are terrible. So this is terrifying. There has to be some, like, you know, oral history of. I was on the prison ship. That was the Staten Island. You know what I'm imagining, though, is that this is 1987. It's the Staten Island Ferry with everyone looking like they're in working girl with big hair and, like, the eyeshadow, and they're like. So here I am on the prison ship, so. Oh, that's a good one. All right, here's what I've got for you. Hey, Meg.

[22:51] Meg: Yes?

[22:52] Jessica: Did you know this is not from the 80s, but I just found this really irresistible. Do you know about Ming the Bengal Tiger?

[23:01] Meg: No.

[23:02] Jessica: Ming the Bengal Tiger of Harlem.

[23:05] Meg: So I do know. I do know. But tell me.

[23:08] Jessica: In 2000, Antoine Yates purchased a cat.

[23:17] Meg: Cat.

[23:18] Jessica: And he knew. No. Antoine Yates had a big dream of creating a Garden of Eden. He wanted all of the animals to all get along and love each other. So in 2000, he. He purchases this cub, this tiger cub, which is just so cute. Just look like big paws and a baby alligator. He names the tiger cub Ming because he's really into all things Chinese. And he names the alligator Al.

[23:49] Meg: Oh, so things are not exotic at all?

[23:52] Jessica: No, things are going pretty okay until 2003.

[23:55] Meg: Oh, no.

[23:56] Jessica: When Ming, who has been declawed good.

[24:01] Meg: I guess not for me, still gets a.

[24:04] Jessica: Gets a little feisty, I bet. And I mean, how heavy is Ming at this point? He's 425 pounds. Holy. And he has been, you know, trained rigorously by Antoine Yates. I'm sure he does. And apparently it was a rather large apartment in Harlem. Antoine Yates obviously made the wrong move, and Ming chomped him something serious.

[24:32] Meg: Oh, no.

[24:33] Jessica: And so Antoine goes to the emergency room saying that he has been bitten by a pit bull. And the emergency room doctors, surgeons are like, no, you weren't. This is a huge animal, and it looks like a feline bite.

[24:50] Meg: Wow, they're smart, those ER guys.

[24:53] Jessica: Well, I think when they were like this don't look like no pit bull. Time to investigate. So who knows who they got in. The police are dispatched. And by the way, Antoine was fucked up. Like, it was not good. He kept the leg that he's alive. He was fine. So the. The police go to his address, where they find Al roaming around as well. And Ming is not pleased. So they're like, we've got to do something with this cat. So they decide that they are going to sedate this animal, and there's a great photograph. They're like, how the fuck are we going to do that? No one's going in that apartment. So they have a policeman who rappels down the side of the building and shoots through the window with the tranquilizer dart to get Ming, which he does. I don't think that Al needed the same treatment. Al was more like, I'm just going to be really quiet here. It's okay. You don't need to shoot me. I'm all right. It's all good, guys. It's okay. Ming is put on it.

[25:57] Meg: Thanks, Ming.

[25:58] Jessica: Exactly.

[25:59] Meg: Getting us in trouble.

[26:00] Jessica: Ming. Ming, you had to go and bite him. Ming. I have all my teeth, Ming. And Ming was eating, like, 20 pounds of chicken thighs a day. So this was a big commitment on Antoine's part. So they get Ming on a tarp. They pull him out of there. They pull Al out, and they realize that Antoine's mom, I think, had a daycare service in the apartment. So there were children there, and they were like. But they were in a different room. So Antoine's mom is now also in the soup. Not good. So, Antoine, are alligator chicken nuggets. Yes, they definitely are. So Antoine, on some misdemeanor, goes to the clink very briefly, but his negotiation with the police was, leave my mother alone. And nothing ever happened with the kids. She was very mindful. Whatever. They're like, fine. We just need to, like, make an example of you. No more exotic pets. Ming goes to an animal rehabilitation preserve where he lives out another 16 years and dies in 2019. No mention is made of what happened to Al.

[27:19] Meg: Oh, my God.

[27:19] Jessica: Poor Al. Poor Al. Al is just like, seriously back in the sewer for me. Stuff of urban legends. I. All right, thanks, Min. Hey, Meg.

[27:43] Meg: Yes?

[27:44] Jessica: Did you like gym class?

[27:47] Meg: No. Oh, my God. Can I tell you, I, I, I.

[27:50] Jessica: Don'T want to interrupt. No, no. I haven't even begun. You can't possibly interrupt.

[27:54] Meg: I was telling. Oh, wait, okay. So you came in ninth grade.

[27:59] Jessica: No, eighth grade.

[28:00] Meg: Eighth grade. You came in eighth grade. So you missed the Ms. Bennett years.

[28:05] Jessica: No, no.

[28:06] Meg: Oh, you got Ms. Bennett. Okay, I was trying to describe. I know a guy who coaches kids. He teaches them how to throw balls and catch balls. And I said, guess what, Jordan? I never learned how to catch or throw a ball. And his response was, first of all, he showed me how to catch and throw a ball, which is really interesting. And now I know how to practice.

[28:28] Jessica: Well done.

[28:28] Meg: Right? But then he was like, so what did you do in gym class? And I was like, funny you ask. We marched, Ms. Bennet. When we were in lower school, we would wear those little bloomers and she would have us march in a perfect square to this song, which you'll be able to identify.

[28:49] Jessica: Dee dee dee dee dee dee dee dee dee dee dee dee dee dee dee dee dee dee. I think that's like John Philip Souza or something.

[28:58] Meg: We did that for the entirety of our gym class.

[29:02] Jessica: Well, as an adult, I hear this, and I think Ms. Bennett was kind of a genius because that will tire out a bunch of kids. And it sounds like she has some militaristic, questionably militaristic leanings that maybe should have been investigated.

[29:16] Meg: My friend Jordan looked at me like.

[29:18] Jessica: I was a lunatic. That would happen. I'm not surprised, considering that gym class in 10th grade was go run around the reservoir. That's true. I mean, I don't think that Jim was taken very seriously at Nightingale.

[29:37] Meg: All Girls School. Pre title nine.

[29:39] Jessica: Yeah, exactly. Well, it's funny that you should mention that you didn't know how to catch a ball, because in New York City, it is illegal to throw a ball at someone's head. Now, the reason I asked about gym class is when I was at Fleming, the bane of my existence, as it was at Nightingale, was gym class. But even worse than that. Yes, I hated gymnastics. I hated, I hated every. There was never gym. Nothing that I ever liked. But the worst was dodgeball. And the super worst was when on Fridays we did co ed dodgeball. And Adam H. Who had an arm on him? Like, I don't know. Name a pitcher who's important. I don't know. You know, write in, tell me. But he had an arm. What? Johnny Bench, I think. I don't know. Pit. You know, sports games. Sports games. Flung that thing like it. You were marked for life with those. You know, the red balls with little cross hatches on them. Yeah. It was indented into your skin for the rest of your life. So, turns out it was illegal to do that. And I'm going to give you something else, by the way. In my notes, I was like, adam.

[31:01] Meg: Whoring, make a citizen's arrest 50 years later.

[31:06] Jessica: Exactly. New York Penal Law Section 245.05 prohibits humiliating exhibitions like throwing a ball at someone's head, and particularly when the recipient of said ball has voluntarily submitted to be part of this. What describes dodgeball better? That's it. No mas.

[31:33] Meg: That's fascinating.

[31:35] Jessica: Yes.

[31:35] Meg: And who came up with this? Who does? Someone. Who?

[31:39] Jessica: A nerd.

[31:40] Meg: Yes.

[31:42] Jessica: An unathletic nerd.

[31:44] Meg: At dodgeball.

[31:46] Jessica: Exactly. So if you are listening and you have a child who is, or you are a child who goes to a gym class and dodgeball is happening, please use this information.

[31:56] Meg: Yes. You gave them the number, right?

[31:58] Jessica: I did. I did. Penal Law Section 24505. Changing the World One ball at a time.

[32:07] Meg: Jessica.

[32:08] Jessica: Yes.

[32:09] Meg: Did you know that 10th Avenue used to be known as Death Avenue? Do you want to know why I.

[32:18] Jessica: Am dying to know?

[32:21] Meg: Because the freight trains responsible for delivering New York City's food ran at street level, along with the pedestrians, the horses and the cars. West side. Cowboy.

[32:37] Jessica: I can't believe you're doing this. Because this. I elected not to do this one. Are you serious? I swear to God. I was about to say, hey, did you know how they got people out of the way? Oh, my God. I love this story. How do you know this?

[32:48] Meg: So you do know this.

[32:50] Jessica: Go ahead.

[32:50] Meg: So Westside cowboys would ride ahead of the trains to warn people that the trains were coming. But there were still tons of fatalities. In 1934, the Westside Improvement Project moved the tracks above street level, and that's what the High Line was. And now the tracks ran through factories and warehouses to pick up the meat and the groceries. And the last train ran along those tracks in 1980.

[33:22] Jessica: Very nice. So interesting little factoid to add to that. Though the cowboys, literal cowboys, were not in. In. They were not necessary for the original use of their services. Once the tracks moved, they were not disbanded until 1941.

[33:43] Meg: What did they do.

[33:44] Jessica: Who knows? Maybe. Maybe they, you know, they were. They were annexed by the mounted police. I don't know. Maybe they became mounted police, like a subdivision of the mounted police. I don't know.

[33:55] Meg: Very interesting.

[33:56] Jessica: But, yeah, I love, I love that. I absolutely love that fact.

[34:01] Meg: Why do you think that you heard about this fact recently? Do you. Is that a huge coincidence that we both like?

[34:09] Jessica: Well, you know that I'm always tooling around, like, the history of New York. What's weird, what's interesting? Like, I, I. If I can't sleep at night, I'm just playing on my iPad with that.

[34:21] Meg: But the fact that you had that very same fact and went like, I'll pick another one.

[34:26] Jessica: I don't know why.

[34:27] Meg: There's lots of facts about New York.

[34:30] Jessica: There are. But I think what that really talks about is our synchronicity. Crazy. Nutty. I loved it. This is fun. The more we know and now the more the more you know, dear listener. Yeah.

[34:47] Meg: And while we're at it, if you guys, like, have fun facts, write them in and we will share them.

[34:54] Jessica: Yeah. And New York facts. And maybe do a little more follow up.

[34:57] Meg: Yeah.

[34:57] Jessica: Yay. The more you know it.