[00:16] Meg: Welcome to Desperately Seeking the 80s. I am Meg.

[00:19] Jessica: And I'm Jessica. Meg and I have been friends since 1982. We got through middle school and high school together here in New York City, where we still live and where we

[00:29] Meg: podcast about New York city in the 80s. I do ripped from the headlines, and

[00:33] Jessica: I do pop culture.

[00:35] Meg: I can't believe it has taken me so long to read you this missive that we received via our website.

[00:42] Jessica: Okay.

[00:44] Meg: You know how you were curious about that nude Sibela Borges photo spread in episode 23 that got her fired from the NYPD back in 1982, but you didn't want to spend $150 hunting down the magazine? Like, vaguely. I do remember that. Yes, I found it. No, it took me hours trying to find it. And I only got it because I read the ruling on the case regarding her back pay and kept trying to find one of the other magazines besides Beaver. It appeared in their offshoot Damsels, for the record. Oh, my God. And only then I found it through a reverse Yandex image search of the COVID to some obscure PDF archive site Jesus took for freaking ever. Anyway, if you still want to see it, I'll send it to you gratis.

[01:37] Jessica: Oh, my God, yes.

[01:39] Meg: Okay. So I did. Okay.

[01:42] Jessica: Are we allowed to say who this is? Who did this?

[01:45] Meg: No.

[01:45] Jessica: Okay.

[01:46] Meg: No.

[01:46] Jessica: All right.

[01:47] Meg: No, it's no one we know.

[01:51] Jessica: Okay.

[01:51] Meg: But also, the person sort of hid their identity email, so I'm like, man of mystery or woman of mystery?

[02:01] Jessica: Who knows? Researcher.

[02:03] Meg: Researcher. So impressive. And so I said, yes, send me 80s porn.

[02:13] Jessica: I did that. I love that.

[02:15] Meg: And person of mystery did indeed send me said porn. And it's really interesting. I meant to have it with me, but it's not on my phone. It's on my computer at home.

[02:30] Jessica: I'm like, am I gonna get arrested for this? Are you ridiculous? I know. I want to see it so badly.

[02:36] Meg: I will send it to you as soon as you get it.

[02:38] Jessica: When you say interesting, do you mean because you're overwhelmed by how, you know, detailed it is, or is it that it's trying to be art but it fails? Like, what is.

[02:48] Meg: I think this is what I think. I think that it is extremely 80s in.

[02:53] Jessica: In other words, lots of bush.

[02:56] Meg: Yes.

[02:56] Jessica: Okay.

[02:57] Meg: And also, like, the look on the women's faces. It's lesbian. And the look on the women's faces is like, they couldn't be more bored and their legs are spread so, so wide. There's just a combination of things that makes you go, this is different from what I think is what people look at now.

[03:20] Jessica: That's so interesting because what I immediately think of with the bored faces and then the super spread eagle is like if there's an expression on someone's face, they're a person. And so the lack of expression can maybe make them more like objects.

[03:38] Meg: I don't know. I mean, we do know from her own words that she had no problem doing it. She did it for money. It was not an issue. So we know that she wasn't taken advantage of, you know, as I maybe.

[03:52] Jessica: Oh, no, Yeah, I just. I just meant the aesthetic of the porn.

[03:55] Meg: Right.

[03:55] Jessica: Is like.

[03:56] Meg: I wonder. She was instructed not to have any.

[03:58] Jessica: Right, right. That's what I'm going. That's. That's the road I'm going down. That's what I'm saying. That the aesthetic is. Be so blank in the facial expression, be nothing.

[04:10] Meg: Right. Maybe.

[04:11] Jessica: I don't know.

[04:12] Meg: I guess I always thought, you know, that they were supposed to like look like they're raptured or whatever.

[04:17] Jessica: Rapturous.

[04:18] Meg: What's the word?

[04:19] Jessica: Enraptured. Enraptured. Who knows? But what am I? I mean, I'm completely out of my depth because I haven't even seen the photo.

[04:26] Meg: Yeah, no, I'll bring it next time. Or I'll send it to you.

[04:29] Jessica: Send it to me. Send me some porn.

[04:31] Meg: I will do.

[04:32] Jessica: I'm so excited.

[04:33] Meg: And then we'll. We'll get your description of it next time.

[04:35] Jessica: I am. So this will be a two parter. A two parter of our porn. Analys.

[04:51] Meg: Jessica. When I say the term partners in crime, who do you think of?

[04:58] Jessica: Heart to heart. Okay, that's an answer. That's an answer. I don't know why it was the first thing that popped into my head. Partners in crime. I was thinking for yourself, like, who's my partner?

[05:11] Meg: Or was when you.

[05:12] Jessica: Well, clearly it's you.

[05:15] Meg: I think I qualify.

[05:16] Jessica: The only other person who I would say would be a partner in crime would be Sasha because we were kicked out of everything together in high school.

[05:24] Meg: And maybe Regina counts. Yeah, no, I mean, I would say for me, Amanda.

[05:29] Jessica: Yeah. I would say that Sasha was my partner in. In.

[05:32] Meg: And then Nick eventually.

[05:34] Jessica: Well, Nick was dead. Yeah, I mean, but. But that's different because, like, there are two different ways that I view partner in crime. There's. This is what your real question was. I know. There's. Who do you get into actual trouble with and who do you get into fun mischief with? And Nick is definitely my fun mischief, as was Sasha. But with Sasha, we did things that got us in trouble in high school that we actually were punished for. So that's, you know, she's just like

[06:07] Meg: actual crime,

[06:10] Jessica: but it was fun. So she's, she's, you know, she's two things in one.

[06:14] Meg: But good answer anyway.

[06:15] Jessica: But now you're my partner.

[06:17] Meg: Wow. Lifelong.

[06:18] Jessica: You were not expecting heart to heart and that makes me really happy.

[06:22] Meg: I'm just like, sure.

[06:24] Jessica: But that was, I think that was part of the intro to the show.

[06:30] Meg: Oh, was it?

[06:30] Jessica: I think, I think so.

[06:32] Meg: I, to be honest, never saw that show. I know of it.

[06:37] Jessica: It's enough. Trust me, it's enough.

[06:40] Meg: On May 8, 1981 in Riverhead, Long Island, 17 year old Peter Quartaro and his brother 16 year old Michael were convicted of murdering 13 year old Johnny Pius. I'm going to warn you that this story takes some turns, so stick with me.

[07:03] Jessica: Yes.

[07:04] Meg: So teenagers.

[07:07] Jessica: How old is the older one?

[07:08] Meg: 17.

[07:08] Jessica: 17. 15.

[07:09] Meg: And murdered a 13, 17, 16 and murdered a 13 year old. But actually they were 15 and 14 at the time. It had taken a couple years to convict them.

[07:20] Jessica: So a 15 year old and a 14 year old murdered a 13 year old.

[07:24] Meg: That's what the court says.

[07:26] Jessica: That's what I'm.

[07:28] Meg: According to Assistant DA Tom Spada, the Quartararo boys and two others murdered Johnny because he spotted them with a stolen busted up mini bike and they were worried that he would report them to the police. Quote this is from Tom Spada. The life of John Pius was more precious than a five dollar mini bike. They shoved rocks down the boy's throat. They realized he was suffocating, but they allowed him to die. All right. Back on April 20, 1979, Johnny rode his bike to Dogwood Elementary School at 8:15pm he told his father he would be home in 15 minutes, but he never came back. His body was discovered by family members in the woods behind the school at 1pm the next day. He'd been beaten and dirt and stones were shoved down his throat which suffocated him. There was also a footprint from a sneaker on his body, which led the police to believe it was a kid on kid crime. Sneakers, kids. Kids wear sneakers. Over the next few months, the police rode around the neighborhood in squad cars, picking up kids and interviewing them. Sometimes in the backseat of the squad car, sometimes at headquarters, never contacting their parents. At one of these interviews, Peter Quartierero, who as I said was 15 at the time, ended up confessing and also naming his 14 year old brother Michael and two other kids. He recanted almost immediately, but they had him on tape. There was a lot of outrage in the community for how the boys were treated by the police. But in the end, after two years and a retrial, they. Three of the four boys were convicted and sentenced to nine years to life. The evidence that seemed unassailable by the jury was Peter's taped confession and the testimony of 14 year old James Burke, who claimed he heard the brothers bragging about the murder.

[09:41] Jessica: Oh, God.

[09:42] Meg: At his sentencing, Michael claimed James Burke was lying. He also said, quote, I was always brought up to trust police and I will never trust them again. I thank the police department and the district attorney for ruining my life. John Pius was a nice guy and a friend of mine. The only thing that keeps me together is that I know I am innocent. And God knows I am innocent. The convictions were a boon for Assistant DA Tom Spada, who began to rise through the ranks while also maintaining a private criminal defense practice.

[10:22] Jessica: Weird.

[10:23] Meg: So weird. He's a DA and a criminal defense lawyer. Have you ever heard of something like that?

[10:32] Jessica: That's very, very awry.

[10:36] Meg: He represented James Macready in 1986 when he was accused of perjury in a murder case. Does the name James McCready sound familiar?

[10:46] Jessica: Yes, it does.

[10:47] Meg: He was the lead detective when Marty Tankliff was accused of murdering his parents. And Tom Spada's law partner in his criminal defense firm defended Jerry Steuerman during his legal mess, as you recall.

[11:04] Jessica: Oh, my God.

[11:05] Meg: Jerry Steuerman was deceased. Seymour Tankliffe's very shady business partner.

[11:12] Jessica: Right.

[11:12] Meg: Now this is a callback to episode 21, Back to School Disaster and Underage Drinking. Now, Jessica, you may also recall that the confession rate in Suffolk county during

[11:26] Jessica: this period was extraordinarily high.

[11:29] Meg: 94%.

[11:30] Jessica: Yes.

[11:31] Meg: This is all coming back to you, right?

[11:33] Jessica: Of course it is.

[11:33] Meg: The second I said Macready, you were like, what?

[11:35] Jessica: Yes, My. My eyes shot open.

[11:38] Meg: Now remember James Burke? He's the 14 year old who testified.

[11:43] Jessica: Yes.

[11:44] Meg: He was a bit of a wild child before he became Tom Spada's star witness in the Johnny Pius case. And he went on when he grew up, he went on to become a Suffolk county police officer.

[11:55] Jessica: Interesting.

[11:57] Meg: But he ran into some trouble in 1995. He's a police officer and he was caught having sex in his squad car, in uniform, while on duty with a sex worker who also supplied him with drugs.

[12:14] Jessica: That is thorough.

[12:18] Meg: The Suffolk County Police Department is notorious for its high salaries and for its scandals. This is another callback to episode 135, Southampton Sorrows and Powerpunk Girls. Remember when we were talking about all that stuff that happened in Southampton and how, like, the police were also, like, in their free time, they were being paid by the criminal who owned that house? So it was just like, everybody, what's happening here? Like, is there corruption? Is there a rule book for the Suffolk County Police Department?

[12:53] Jessica: Yes, it's called Anything Goes.

[12:56] Meg: But James Burke was not fired after being caught with his pants down, Literally. His old friend Tom Spada represented him. And somehow he wasn't even demoted.

[13:09] Jessica: No.

[13:10] Meg: In fact, he became chief of the Suffolk County Police Department in 2012. Around this time, a young heroin addict named Christopher Loeb broke into an SUV looking for some stuff to sell. He found a gun belt, handcuffs, magazines of ammunition, a box of cigars, a humidor, and a canvas bag that contained sex toys and a homemade dvd. When he got back to his mother's home, he played the dvd, and he says what he saw was a snuff film featuring a terrified scene sex worker. He didn't have too long to freak out about that because the police burst into his mother's home and dragged him off to jail, confiscating the porn. It turns out Christopher had broken into James Burke's suv.

[14:15] Jessica: Oh, my God.

[14:16] Meg: And James Burke proceeded to beat the crap out of out of Christopher and threatened to give him a hotshot. Do you know what that is?

[14:24] Jessica: No. Oh, oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. A heroin overdose.

[14:27] Meg: Overdose. And threatened to rape his mother.

[14:31] Jessica: Oh, again, thorough. Very thorough.

[14:35] Meg: Now, Christopher told some people this, but nobody believed him. He was a young heroin addict, and more than 11 police officers covered for Burke for many, many years. And guess who helped Burke keep it under wraps?

[14:50] Jessica: Spada.

[14:52] Meg: You got it. Tom Spada, who by this time was the DA Of Suffolk County. So you've got the DA and the chief of police, who have known each other since one was 25 and the other one was 14. But in 2016, the Blue Wall crumbled, and Burke was forced to plead guilty to assault and obstruction of justice in the Christopher Lowe case. And Tom Spada was was indicted for obstruction, witness tampering, and conspiracy for helping Burke cover it up. Burke was sentenced to 46 months in the federal prison, and he was released in 2019. And was it a snuff film? Was it not a snuff film? It's disappeared. It doesn't exist anymore. So who knows?

[15:38] Jessica: Oh, my God.

[15:40] Meg: Then in August. So now he's out of jail. Right. In August 2023, Burke was arrested at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial park in Farmingville for exposing himself to an undercover park ranger and offering him a sex act. It's like, Burke, keep in your pants, Burke. You messed up Burke.

[16:06] Jessica: Yeah. Burke is.

[16:07] Meg: You got some issues.

[16:07] Jessica: He's looking for. He's looking for trouble.

[16:10] Meg: For his part in the mess, Tom spada resigned as DA in 2017. He was disbarred. He was fined $100,000 and he was sentenced to five years in federal prison.

[16:22] Jessica: Good.

[16:23] Meg: But. And this is where the story is just going to blow your mind.

[16:27] Jessica: Okay. I'm very excited to be blown away.

[16:31] Meg: Back in 2010, Tom Spada's office oversaw the investigation of Lisk. Do you know what Lisk is?

[16:42] Jessica: No.

[16:42] Meg: The Long island serial killer.

[16:45] Jessica: Ooh.

[16:46] Meg: The bodies of at least 10 people, most of whom have been identified as sex workers who got their dates from Craigslist were found on South Shore beaches. Tom Spada and his chief of police, James Burke, refused help from the FBI. I wonder why. I mean, the most innocent reason for them to deny help from the FBI is that they knew when the FBI started asking questions, their own corruption and criminal activity. I love that. That's the cleanest version. That's the cleanest version. I mean, the other version is like they're doing it. Maybe Burke had something to do with all this. They also seemed rather uninvested in solving these murders. Some people were saying like that Burke in particular referred to the victims as being. Ugh. Well, that's just a misdemeanor murder because it's a sex worker. So really, who cares, right? Misdemeanor murder. It wasn't until Burke and Spada were run out of office and the FBI officially joined the investigation. 59 year old Rex Heuermann was identified as the Long Island Serial Killer. Thanks to DNA evidence and cell phone data. He was arrested in Midtown Manhattan in July 2023 and is currently awaiting trial.

[18:15] Jessica: Good God.

[18:17] Meg: Do you know how many people were probably killed in the meantime while these two assholes were, like, covering for each other? It's so disgusting.

[18:28] Jessica: There's very little that you might find in a story of police corruption, sex workers and murder. That's not disgusting.

[18:39] Meg: I should mention that my sources are Gone Girls, which is a wonderful documentary that tells the whole story and film Long Island Serial Killer and really focuses on the victims and also just how once the FBI had the case, it was so solvable.

[19:00] Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. Well, when you're not sitting on evidence to protect yourself, right?

[19:06] Meg: Newsday, New York Times. And somebody direct messaged me a while ago and I for the life of me cannot find it. But somebody said in response to the episode about Marty Tankliffe, in response to that, said, oh, the Suffolk County Police Department and the Long island serial killer. And I was like, I've never made a connection like that. Let me look into it. So thank you. I'm sorry I couldn't find your, I can't say what your name is because I couldn't find the message. But I remember I was just like that. So makes sense. Because when you're like, you know, so busy with all the corruption and everything, you just don't have time to do your job.

[19:54] Jessica: Yeah, of course not.

[19:56] Meg: And that's again, the most innocent explanation for their behavior, which is chilling.

[20:01] Jessica: Yeah.

[20:02] Meg: And look, that was a 14 year old who testified. Let's go back to the original story. Johnny Pius, who did kill Johnny Pius. You know what?

[20:13] Jessica: I don't know. I didn't get that out of the story.

[20:16] Meg: I don't think, I don't think it was the Cortoro boys. That's what I think. I don't think they did it. And you know what? They don't. They're now out of jail. They made a plea deal and, and they're. So that's that. But then they do not want to talk about it. But from what I read, I don't think they did it. And given this whole like, you know, 94% confession rate thing, like they just like cornered kids in the back of their car.

[20:48] Jessica: I mean, the fact that the parents weren't able to say, like, was there not a regulation that you had to have parents in the room when you were kids?

[20:59] Meg: There was. And parents made a big stink about it and didn't really matter because remember, we're also talking about a period of time where people didn't even understand the concept of false confession. So they're like, oh, well, he confessed, so he did it, period. Plus we have this other 14 year old who's saying he heard them brag about it. And we now know that that 14 year old was a very, very troubled person.

[21:25] Jessica: Well, also because you know what I'm thinking is that the crime, the killing of Johnny Pius, Johnny Pius, it was a very intimate murder. You know, they were all over him. And I'm wondering why there was no follow up with DNA evidence.

[21:44] Meg: It's a good question. I did hear somebody being interviewed, a reporter, I think it was the reporter for Newsday who was looking back over everything and nobody except for the kids was even interviewed. And Johnny Pius's home life was not great. And apparently there was a really creepy neighbor who lived across the street.

[22:08] Jessica: I mean, the more that I think about it, that is a murder of total rage. Like, that's not. I want your bike. No, like that's a really personal, fury fueled murder. That's.

[22:24] Meg: There were so many things too about the story that just didn't make sense. What do you mean? He left on his bike and said he'd be back in 15 minutes. What do you mean? He was going to the school to meet somebody. To the school parking lot to meet somebody. Like you're not going to be back in 15 minutes?

[22:43] Jessica: Correct.

[22:45] Meg: Very weird, Very strange. And anyway, yeah, I think many people consider it an unsolved case.

[22:51] Jessica: Well, there's so many. There's so many layers to it that are unsolved. So, yeah, woof.

[22:57] Meg: But yeah, keep your eyes open for the Long island serial killer trial that is upcoming. I believe it happens like next month or something. Oh, and yeah, they've got him dead to rights.

[23:21] Jessica: I was looking through the New York Times Times machine because I was excited to find something that would be from the same date as when this will drop, which is the 15th.

[23:30] Meg: Fun.

[23:31] Jessica: I ran across something that brought me, I would say, almost as much joy as the review for the Moosewood murders.

[23:41] Meg: Okay. Which is so crazy because you know who I ran into.

[23:44] Jessica: That's why I'm saying. That's why I said to you, say nothing, say nothing. So tell me who you ran into.

[23:49] Meg: Andy Bragan is an amazing playwright and he wrote an article about the Moose Murders is my memory. And you read the article and you started talking about Andy Bragan. And I was like, I know Andy Bragan. Well, anyway, he's a good friend and I ran into him just this morning. He was jogging along the east river and I was walking Fozzie and we were like, oh my God.

[24:11] Jessica: Well, there you go. Moosewood will never leave us. Or the moose. Not Moosewood. That's the Moosewood Cookbook. Moose murders will never leave us. So I was reading the Times, and while it was not a review by Frank Rich, who he dubbed the Butcher of Broadway, the Butcher of Broadway has a business partner in his slaughterhouse. I don't know, Mel Gusaurus. Okay, so this is from April 15, 1981. I will be honest with our dear listeners. I was feeling a little down. I didn't have a great week and I found this and I just lost it. So I was like, I want to share this joy with our. Our beloved listeners. So I'm going to read to you Mel Gossau's review. The title is Theater Colon. It's Me by and with Sylvia Miles. Oh, the actress Sylvia Miles. Okay, so here we go.

[25:19] Meg: So what is she in Here we go.

[25:21] Jessica: Just Here we go.

[25:22] Meg: Okay.

[25:22] Jessica: Narcissism flew into the Playhouse Theater 2 on Monday night in the guise of Sylvia Miles, the author, lyricist and sole performer in it's me, Sylvia.

[25:36] Meg: Wow.

[25:36] Jessica: The evening takes place in a supposed copy of Ms. Miles's incredibly cluttered apartment. The set has been ingeniously designed by Eugene Lee. And that is the last kind word that should be said about the show. Oh, Mel. Wearing voluminous satiny slacks and a pink zebra cutaway blouse that matches the linoleum on the floor, Ms. Miles would be right in fashion in the Rocky Horror Show. The actress has compounded her garish appearance with her slapdash soliloquy drawn from a series of autobiographical articles she wrote for the Soho weekly news.

[26:15] Meg: Huh?

[26:16] Jessica: Ms. Miles leads us aimlessly through her unedited life in the public spotlight. A trip that is already over. Familiar from gossip columns. A few of the stories may be worth repeating, she tells them badly accompanying this dreary exercise in self exposure is a score of unmitigated blandness.

[26:38] Meg: Is she singing?

[26:39] Jessica: Ms. Miles's lyrics are sing songy quote. It's not so bad. You might be glad it is so bad. I was not glad. The music is credited to G. McDermott, who must have phoned it in from Staten Island. The director of record is Arthur Sherman, who's.

[27:04] Meg: Should I know who that is?

[27:06] Jessica: No, it's just the idea that he's saying the director of record as like the one who we can find to blame this on. Sylvia might have said she directed it. We don't know. Ms. Miles can carry a tune from stage right to stage left. She does not bother to dance. A brief reprieve for our side. This is so hard. Mostly she moves from chair to chair, fakes telephone calls and waves a magic wand. She made several theatergoers disappear. Once. She ventures into the audience, but never achieves a moment of spontaneity. She works hard at working hard, overselling herself to an inflationary degree. As the 90 minute memoir continues, the actress becomes more and more insistent. At one point she clucks like a chicken offering the most convincing chicken clucking since Tessie o' Shea laid an egg in the in Broadway Follies. In the past, Ms. Miles has been effective in various roles on stage and Screen, the Balcony and Midnight Cowboy. But she may be the wrong actress to play herself. She accentuates all of her most unflattering traits. One watches the show with increasing incredulity. What possessed her to do it? At one point she says, better a martyr than a masochist. Call it masochism. And then underneath, a note from the Times, it's me. Sylvia will close Sunday after having given eight performances. It's so shady. And the reason that I love this, this is. This is. There's so many reasons that, like, I now have. I kind of have a thing now for collecting these, and here's why. Could you imagine anyone getting with writing this way now?

[29:07] Meg: No.

[29:08] Jessica: The idea of the critic as someone whose writing is something of note, and the critic's wit and ability to bring you in as the audience member or the prospective audience member to really feel what they felt during the performance, I think is gone. Like this. This. It's. It's almost like criticism is now so objective. It tries to be so objective. And I. I am endlessly delighted by these highly subjective and just bitchy as shit reviews. And obviously there is the other side of this, which is the subjective. It was divine. I can't get enough. But we live, as we well know, in an era when really slamming someone or raking them over the coals, even if it's well deserved, is overthought into nothingness. You know, people are not, you know, no one can say that bad is bad. Bad doesn't. You know, it's like, oh, this did not fulfill the father. Bad is bad occasionally. And in this point, in this case, Sylvia Miles could not play herself. I mean, she can carry a tune from stage left to stage right. It's so good. So I don't think we're ever going to get back to a time when reviewers could get away with this, can get away with this. So I want to celebrate these critics who are just like, you know what, Sylvia? Stay at home. So awful, though.

[30:54] Meg: Poor Sylvia.

[30:56] Jessica: But you know, what a moment of going like, you know, she put a lot into that.

[31:01] Meg: She wrote it.

[31:02] Jessica: Some performers, their delusions don't just come from them. Like, they're of. There are people who are patting them on the back and encouraging them as they go.

[31:11] Meg: So don't you also feel sorry for her for that?

[31:14] Jessica: No, I don't. I feel like, you know what? You know why? Because the terrible reviews that you get are instructive. And they're also. They make the good reviews that you get, everything balances out. No I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. If you go to my website, my personal website, I put on the homepage the worst reviews I got and the best reviews I got. And the worst reviews were funny, just in their complete, unhinged nature. They were all Amazon reviewers. But a trashy book from a trashy woman, and you're like, I'm gonna put that on a T shirt. And how about. At this point, I think it's hilarious she's so horrible that she should be hit by a bus. And if that doesn't happen, a rare and painful form of cancer should get her. Oh, my God, Jessica. Yeah, I see you haven't been to my website. Who said that? An Amazon reviewer. Because they're all fucking crazy. Whereas Elle magazine and Kirkus were like, she's a genius. This is amazing. So who can. But art and review is discourse. And I think that in the early 80s, they were really nailing it. That's all I have to say. Sylvia put herself out there, and Mel wasn't having it. Mel was like, thank God I didn't buy the ticket.

[32:49] Meg: It's so funny because when you started to describe it, what is it called? Playhouse 2. I just. I imagined one of those small theaters that are, like, on. On 42nd, but not on Broadway.

[33:02] Jessica: It was.

[33:03] Meg: And so I. I pictured, like, maybe a hundred seats.

[33:06] Jessica: Playhouse theater too.

[33:08] Meg: Playhouse Theater too. Are you okay? What's the address?

[33:11] Jessica: I will look it up. It doesn't give the address, which I think is also telling, considering that it's probably closed by the time.

[33:18] Meg: I think it's a small theater, which also makes his response to everything. She knew. She knew that he was miserable, is what I'm thinking. Can't you see, like, she's walking into a small crowd and there's Mel with a.

[33:34] Jessica: Well, I'm imagining he wasn't writhing in his seat and gagging.

[33:38] Meg: Really? You got that from that?

[33:40] Jessica: Well, he's a professional.

[33:42] Meg: I don't know.

[33:42] Jessica: You know, or maybe he just put a bag over his head while he was in there. I don't know. But no, it's. I think. I think that. And I'll go back to what I originally said. There is an art to the review that is lost, in my opinion, because there's so much tying yourself into knots to make sure that no one's offended.

[34:04] Meg: And, well, Jesse Green is offending some people these days for sure. Check it out.

[34:10] Jessica: The other thing that I wanted to talk about briefly is, you know, our good friend Alex at one point, and I don't remember if it was. Well, I don't know what episode this is. When we interviewed him for our Yorkville stuff, he is the. For those of you who may not remember, he's the author of the blog Flaming Pablum. He surprised us by talking about how there was a really well known and respected punk club on the Upper east side in Yorkville. Do you remember this?

[34:44] Meg: Vaguely.

[34:44] Jessica: Well, it was called disturbingly Privates.

[34:50] Meg: Yes, I do remember that. Joan. I think Joan Jett filmed a video there.

[34:57] Jessica: Yes, well remembered.

[34:59] Meg: Thank you.

[34:59] Jessica: Well remembered. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. So on April 15, 1981, there is an article about ska music. The new sound of ska music. Oh, fun. And a movie, a documentary called Dance Craze, which apparently has a. Had a. An album that went with it that was covering the ska scene and the premiere of the movie was at Privates. And that is. It's the worst name. Like what were they thinking? It's just so. I don't think they thought that we

[35:43] Meg: would think the way we're thinking about that word. I think they thought it was like exclusive.

[35:48] Jessica: Don't you? Maybe, maybe, Possibly. But what I found really interesting about this article about ska at Privates, they talk specifically about Selector, the Specials, the English Beat, all as like the bands that are breaking. Right. I was like, my God, 1981, that they were all heavily politicized and responding to Thatcher's Britain. And I know that two episodes ago, I think I talked about the exhibit that I saw at Tate Britain of the photographs of all of the protests in the very, very early 80s in primarily London and I think Bristol. And that's what this is. So there is this marriage of this very specific music to those photographs. So if you go online and you check out Tate Britton and the. The exhibit is just called the 80s. I realized this is. This is the soundtrack. Very cool to that from the article. None of these groups has had a hit in the United States, though many of their records have become dance floor favorites in American rock clubs. And there's so much of this article. The language is so like in a rock club. The children seem to find a funky beat. They would like to shake their hips too in a swinging fashion. I'm like, who wrote this? And bizarrely, the author is Robert Palmer. Not the Robert Palmer, but that would be strange. All of these were fun. The Specials, the English Beat, Madness and the Selector have each had several top 10 singles. I love Madness and they're well established pop stars. In reading that, I don't know if you're aware of this, but I think it was last year Madness had a new album out.

[37:45] Meg: I did great. Oh, my God, thank you for giving me that.

[37:49] Jessica: Good.

[37:49] Meg: Ooh, I'm gonna.

[37:50] Jessica: I'm gonna find that I've put it into heavy rotation.

[37:53] Meg: Awesome.

[37:54] Jessica: They sound fantastic. The fact that English bands as popular as the Specials in Madness can deal not just with love and sex, but also with politics and they can do. And that they will still sell records is one of the important differences between rock in Great Britain and rock in America. And the parallels that they drew were REO Speedwagon and Jackson Brown also very much of the era. And I was like, that's so very interesting. But then in the same breath, because REO Speedwagon, they're all love songs, right?

[38:26] Meg: They don't talk politics.

[38:27] Jessica: They don't talk about politics. And so what I then loved was Robert Palmer is talking about how ska is just like just breaking on the scene. And then the next sub section in the article is ska no longer cutting edge. And then goes on to say that all rock is defined by what you wear. And then starts to describe the new romantics who are coming up. So you've got. They're talking about Adam Ant and who else do they have Spandau Ballet visage and that they're all in pirate gear and flowy things and lace and dandyism. And so it was eyeliner, guyliner. And yet this, the ska was the. Was the more notable music. But anyway, so this event took place April 14, I guess, 1981. And then as I kept looking into little bits and pieces about Privates, I saw that Privates closed on or about the 19th of June 1981. So the club closed two months after they had this premiere. So it was one of their last hurrahs.

[39:47] Meg: Very short lived.

[39:48] Jessica: No, I mean, I think the club had been around for a long time. It was just the timing of the. Not a long time. Several years. But it was just like this. It happened to be that this movie premiere was one of the very last things they did.

[40:01] Meg: No one knew it was on. I actually imagine it on Lexington.

[40:08] Jessica: It's on 85th Street.

[40:10] Meg: But is it on the corner?

[40:11] Jessica: It's 150 E. 85th St.

[40:15] Meg: I think it is right near Lexington. Wouldn't it be 150?

[40:18] Jessica: Yeah, probably.

[40:19] Meg: Anyway, I want to go find exactly where it was. 150. Okay, I'll find that.

[40:25] Jessica: So anyway, that was the other thing that caught my eye. So Sylvia Miles getting roasted and the sort of amusing trumpeting of the arrival of ska and then immediately dismissing it for the new romantics. All happening at privates.

[40:53] Meg: You got the tie in?

[40:54] Jessica: I believe I do.

[40:55] Meg: Okay.

[40:56] Jessica: Corruption. Long Island.

[40:58] Meg: Yes.

[40:59] Jessica: Filled with police and political corruption.

[41:02] Meg: No doubt about that.

[41:04] Jessica: Ska protesting political corruption. Thatcher's Britain. Nice.

[41:11] Meg: I mean, was Thatcher corrupt or just morally corrupt? There you go.

[41:15] Jessica: You might put it that way. Morally corrupt, but, you know, and certainly not taking care of its people.

[41:21] Meg: Nope. And really didn't care.

[41:23] Jessica: Long Island. Interesting. Is there a parallel? I don't know what world we're living in at the moment. Can you. Can you think of anything? Not good.

[41:37] Meg: Wait, didn't the markets go up?

[41:39] Jessica: They went right back down. Oh.

[41:41] Meg: In like, just a matter of a few hours. That's crazy.

[41:46] Jessica: That's.

[41:46] Meg: That's today.

[41:47] Jessica: Welcome.

[41:47] Meg: And yesterday and the day before.

[41:49] Jessica: Welcome to the world. As you know, it's. It.