[00:16] Meg: Welcome to Desperately Seeking the 80s. I am Meg.

[00:19] Jessica: And I am Jessica. And Meg and I have been friends since 1982. We got through middle school and high school together here in New York City, where we still live and where we

[00:29] Meg: podcast about New York city in the 80s. I do rip to from the headlines.

[00:32] Jessica: And I do pop culture.

[00:35] Meg: So we heard from two Bens.

[00:38] Jessica: Two Bens.

[00:40] Meg: Two Bens.

[00:41] Jessica: Two whole Bens. Two whole Bens.

[00:42] Meg: Okay, so this is our original Ben. I lived at 45 Tudor City Place when I was in New York.

[00:50] Jessica: Oh, my God.

[00:50] Meg: It was a truly magical place and a magical apartment, even though it was literally one room. I did not have a Murphy bed, but there was space for one. Also, do you know the case of Bert Pugosch and Linda Reese? Another incredibly fascinating, twisted New York story with similarities to this episode's. I won't spoil any of the horrors. They made a riveting documentary about the case called Crazy Love, which I saw at the landmark Sunshine Cinemas on the Lower east side. RIP I do know that story. It involved acid in the face. And I believe it happened in the city 60s.

[01:32] Jessica: Oh, he threw acid in the face.

[01:35] Meg: And the thing with that story was that he was upset with her, so he threw acid in her face, and then she stayed married to him. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so that's sad.

[01:50] Jessica: That's uplift.

[01:51] Meg: But as you pointed out last week, Jessica, acid in the face. It's a thing.

[01:56] Jessica: It's a thing.

[01:57] Meg: All right, now, second Ben, Ben 2, also writes in. Hi, new Ben, checking in. I'm just dropping a note to say, in a world of bad news, I have listened to nothing else but your podcast at work this week. Thank you again to you too, for your incredible wit, storytelling capabilities, and comfort. I only have three unplayed episodes left. I don't know what I'll do.

[02:25] Jessica: Xoxoxoxo that is so uplifting.

[02:29] Meg: I know.

[02:30] Jessica: Thank you. Ben, too.

[02:32] Meg: Also, he asks about Backrack Photography. Does that sound familiar to you? I need to look into it. I told him I didn't know it

[02:41] Jessica: was, like, professional photography. Yes, I do know what it is. It was on 50, I think 57th street, and they had full length, like, they looked like portraits. And do you know who had one? One of our Glee Club?

[02:54] Meg: Ashley. Yes, now I know what you're talking about. Yeah, okay. Because I said to Ben, too. Knew Ben. I said, you know, I don't know, but I'll ask Jessica. And now guess what I do know. And in the. In their window, they had like, a full length portrait, full length of Ashley Ashley. And I can't remember her last. Pierce Ashley Pierce.

[03:18] Jessica: Why I know this. Like, I've had a day of remembering things that, like, have just been coughed out of my brain very randomly. So we're going to chalk Ashley Pierce up to the same phenomenon. But the good news is I can't remember what the other one was now. So that's, that's, that makes sense.

[03:36] Meg: The other one that you remember.

[03:37] Jessica: Yes, I've already forgotten it.

[03:40] Meg: But I, I, yes, I told New Ben that I would also share with you those warm thoughts because it made my day.

[03:48] Jessica: Well, I could use all the warm thoughts that are available and I think everybody could. So we also say to everyone, thank you for listening and we love you.

[04:11] Meg: So Ed Koch was mayor for all of the 80s in New York. See, pretty much. And he sort of epitomized a Democrat to me. That said, I kind of feel like the mayor of New York or New York politics in general doesn't really have, I don't have like a high association with either party. It's more about the individual than it is about the party.

[04:38] Jessica: Interesting.

[04:38] Meg: What do you think?

[04:39] Jessica: This is a great question, actually, because it's like, what did we think of as kids versus what do we think now? So this is right on the nose for this podcast. So as a kid, 100% about the individual, because I didn't know any better. And New York is such a Democrat voting town, traditionally, traditionally, that the agenda of Democrats was always the same. And so there was this feeling of consistency and it was instability, opposition to

[05:15] Meg: Reagan, who was our Republican figurehead.

[05:20] Jessica: And as an adult, once Giuliani came in and once I was more tuned into politics beyond the city, I think I started being more aware of it. And I became more aware of the fact that there are pockets of New York City that are extremely red and in fact now very MAGA that we never would have imagined. And so I guess I would say that I think of Ed Koch as iconic for being himself, but also kind of like the last. I don't know if this sounds crazy or not, but true Democrat mayor. Like, I don't feel like the agendas of any of our mayors since then have been as clear as and for the people, because he was. So how am I doing? Like, he was out there mixing it up with New Yorkers every day in the street. You could see him getting into the subway. He was a man of the people. And so I just don't, I think that that made him very.

[06:30] Meg: It's Also so confusing. Bloomberg flipping all over the place. Like, what does he want to be one day versus the next just so he could win?

[06:39] Jessica: Yeah, a hundred percent.

[06:41] Meg: I, I don't even know if that's cynical, but it, it definitely plays with the labels.

[06:46] Jessica: I couldn't agree with you more. And I think part of the reason that I'm answering the way that I am is also in light of what our current mayor mayoral situation is. You know, Koch felt reliable. He was reliably himself. And if you. He wasn't really a crook, you know, and since then, everything has been about money and positioning in a way that is so blatant. And he wasn't. At least to my childlike eyes.

[07:16] Meg: Thank you.

[07:16] Jessica: Not childlike. Actual childish child. Child eye. I have child eyes. Okay, enough of that.

[07:24] Meg: That is a great answer because it really does put us in this world. This is a personal story, but, but politics comes into it and I will be interested to hear what your impression of that is.

[07:36] Jessica: I'm sure I won't hold back.

[07:39] Meg: My sources are New York Magazine and the New York Times. In March 1982, 21 year old bodybuilder Greg Bergeron and his friend, disco owner George Black decided to spend a fun weekend in New York. They were from Boston and the month before they had struck up a conversation with a rich middle aged businessman named Freddy while dining at the Cafe Promenade, which is in Boston.

[08:10] Jessica: Interesting. Why does that. I'll tell you something. That name, Bergeron is ringing some bells.

[08:18] Meg: Okay.

[08:18] Jessica: I don't know why.

[08:20] Meg: The man had given them his number and said to call if they were ever in New York. So that weekend Greg decided to call and invite Freddy to Studio 54. But Freddy declined. It wasn't really his scene, too noisy and crowded. Also, he was a congressman and he might be recognized.

[08:43] Jessica: Ooh.

[08:45] Meg: So Greg took a cab to Congressman Freddie Richmond's apartment at 25 Sutton Place and George didn't see him again until 3:30 in the morning. When he returned to the New York Hilton, which where they were staying, Greg told George that he'd had a wonderful time, that they'd had dinner and hung out at Freddy's lavish home. You look like you have something to say.

[09:13] Jessica: No, I'm waiting for the shoe to drop. Okay.

[09:16] Meg: It's the shoe you're imagining. Okay. It's exactly that style shoe.

[09:22] Jessica: It's a sex shoe. Okay. The shoe is wearing a harness. The shoe. Shoe. The shoe is. Is asking to be whipped a little bit. Knock me around, says the shoe. Yes.

[09:36] Meg: When George and Greg got Back to Boston. There were messages on Greg's answering machine from Freddie asking him to come back to New York.

[09:46] Jessica: I can't stop thinking about you now.

[09:49] Meg: Greg was the youngest of five with a single mother and absent father. He'd been in and out of juvenile court for drugs, delinquency, assault and battery. But in January 1981, he'd started working as a bouncer at the Boston Disco Pipeline and things were looking up. Thank you, Boston. He enrolled at Boston State College and was majoring in psychology. But now this wealthy 59 year old Congressman was inviting him into his New York life. And Greg went, whether because he was in need of a father or direction in his life, or because he was actually smitten with Freddy.

[10:49] Jessica: Have you seen photos of Freddie?

[10:51] Meg: I've seen photos of Freddie and that's a hard sell.

[10:53] Jessica: But who knows, who knows, maybe he was just a magnetic character right now.

[10:59] Meg: Freddie was also at a bit of a crossroads himself. He'd always appeared very respectable. He was a self made millionaire, making it big in the import export trade. He then transitioned to corporate raiding. When making money hand over fist got boring, he decided to go into politics. He used Nelson Rockefeller's career as a blueprint, crafting the Persona of a philanthropist and public servant. He set up the Frederick W. Richmond foundation and immersed himself in Brooklyn Democratic politics, eventually becoming the congressman for the 14th congressional district in 1974. And he did good things during his tenure. He supported inner city gardens and promoted food stamps and held hearings to investigate Latin American coffee cartels. I was like, we should look into that. That was a thing. I didn't know.

[12:01] Jessica: Wait, say you even have to say it again.

[12:04] Meg: Latin American coffee cartel.

[12:06] Jessica: But using, using food stamps. Wait, what did you do?

[12:09] Meg: These are the three things he did that were very democratic.

[12:12] Jessica: Oh, okay. I was like food stamps for drug.

[12:15] Meg: No, no. Three separate things. Gardens, food stamps, coffee cartel.

[12:21] Jessica: Got it. Okay.

[12:23] Meg: But while he did good deeds publicly, he was a dick. Behind closed doors, he berated his staff, cut the lines at the airport, snarling, do you know who I am?

[12:35] Jessica: Ew.

[12:36] Meg: He ran red lights. He drove the wrong way on one way streets. What? He was an entitled prick. The rules didn't apply to Freddie. In 1977, a 16 year old black kid in the District of Columbia confessed to his parents that an older man had been paying him for sex and that the man wanted the kid to find more kids for him to have sex with.

[13:05] Jessica: Oh God.

[13:07] Meg: The police set up a sting using a youthful looking undercover officer.

[13:13] Jessica: O like 21 jump street exactly where's Richard Grieco? Get him out.

[13:18] Meg: And with a tape recorder placed in a school backpack.

[13:23] Jessica: Nice.

[13:24] Meg: Caught Freddy Richmond promising an apartment and a car in exchange for sex. Now, you think that would get. I'm in a lot of trouble.

[13:35] Jessica: I think that that's called sweep it under the rug.

[13:38] Meg: Bizarrely, that was not the end of his political career. H. He applied for the first offenders program. I'd be interested to know if this program still exists. And was ordered 30 days of psychological counseling. Apparently, the first time you get arrested for pedophilia, they give you a pass.

[14:01] Jessica: That's just so insane.

[14:04] Meg: We really actually do have to.

[14:06] Jessica: Look, I think. I think that this is. This is going to be a useful piece of material.

[14:11] Meg: Yeah.

[14:12] Jessica: Oh, God.

[14:13] Meg: Then he spent a small fortune on campaigning and managed to win reelection.

[14:21] Jessica: Well, unsurprising, because I was about to go off on a whole Marion Barry thing, but never mind.

[14:26] Meg: No, I mean, he's. The only reason he's in D.C. is because he's a congressman.

[14:29] Jessica: No, no, I. I got that. I'm just saying that there are people who do all kinds of atrocious things and lo and behold, reelected. I don't know, like.

[14:38] Meg: Oh, that's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Actually, the Providence mayor, too. Anyway. Okay. His win only seemed to bring out the worst in him.

[14:48] Jessica: Wait, so what year did he win?

[14:50] Meg: I think it's going to be 1980 is probably going to be the reelection.

[14:54] Jessica: Okay, okay.

[14:55] Meg: He raged at his staff and floated conspiracy theories that the CIA had set him up. And he badmouthed former allies who he felt abandoned him. He's the victim. No.

[15:09] Jessica: So hard to be a pedophile when you're just trying to make it in the world. What a dick.

[15:16] Meg: He had a string of dalliances. A Puerto Rican kid from Brooklyn An Italian tough guy from Jersey. He had a type Girl was looking for trade. On March 25, 1981, Earl Randolph, a 26 year old career criminal, was arrested for offering a blow job for $30 to an undercover cop on the corner of 53rd and 2nd. We know that area. They refer to it in this article, which, incidentally, was written by Pete Hamill as the Meat Rack.

[15:58] Jessica: Well, I'm going to blow your mind because everyone knows the song New York Groove.

[16:05] Meg: Hum it for us.

[16:06] Jessica: Oh, God, don't make me do that. The chorus is, I'm back, back in the New York Groove. Oh, okay, okay. You know, and Ace Freely did it. It's like thumping. Okay, there's a lyric where I think it's like third and 53. They take a turn into the night, into ecstasy. Oh, interesting.

[16:27] Meg: Interesting.

[16:28] Jessica: Yes. The lyrics are. It's like, that's the corner to pick up some action. Indeed. So that's just a little pop culture je ne sais quoi to stick in there.

[16:40] Meg: Well, this guy we just met, we just met this career criminal, Earl Randolph. He offered a blowjob to the wrong guy. Undercover cop.

[16:48] Jessica: Oops.

[16:49] Meg: Turns out Earl was an escaped convict who was staying with Congressman Freddie Richmond and driving Freddie Richmond's car.

[16:59] Jessica: Oh, guys. Freddy's. Guys.

[17:03] Meg: Freddie had also gotten this escaped convict a job under an assumed name as a doorkeeper of the House of Representatives.

[17:13] Jessica: Are you kidding me right now?

[17:14] Meg: It's just so blatant. It's so perverse. It's like I'm going to.

[17:20] Jessica: It's divided.

[17:21] Meg: Well, it's like I'm going to break the law in the most outlandish way I possibly can.

[17:28] Jessica: Ooh, wait.

[17:29] Meg: What was our new. Don't we have a new phrase? A French phrase? Oh, shoot. Yes. What was it?

[17:38] Jessica: We'll have to look. Yes.

[17:40] Meg: Oh, damn it. I promised myself that I would remember it.

[17:43] Jessica: It was really good.

[17:45] Meg: Oh, and it's a little different because I don't know if he was trying to shock people. That was all about shocking people. This isn't about shocking people. This is, to me is just about, like, getting.

[17:54] Jessica: It's his own getting away with it.

[17:55] Meg: Yeah, I got away with it. This and this and this and this. That means I can do what I'm.

[18:01] Jessica: Oh, yeah. I. If I get away with it, I guess I'm king.

[18:09] Meg: When a federal grand jury was empaneled to look into Freddie's involvement with Earl, they uncovered all kinds of stuff. There's a rule that I'm sure you know, that members of Congress can't earn outside income exceeding 15% of their house salary. To get around that, Freddie pretended to retire from his $128 million holding company, Wallco, but he didn't retire at all. In fact, his company paid for most of his living expenses, including chauffeured cars and. And his 25 Sutton Place apartment. He also used Walco employees to work on his campaign. And Walco made charitable donations to high profile causes using Freddie's name, which helped his political career for sure.

[18:59] Jessica: Yeah.

[19:00] Meg: He also diverted Walco funds into his nonprofit foundation, which shared an address with Walcott to avoid paying taxes.

[19:11] Jessica: But, like, what a bad schemer he is.

[19:14] Meg: He's so messy.

[19:15] Jessica: It's so messy and so obvious

[19:19] Meg: and not at all. Shocking. He had his aides buying pot and cocaine for him.

[19:26] Jessica: The drugs. He wanted the drugs.

[19:28] Meg: By the time Freddie met Greg, his world was more or less exposed. He'd been caught in all of these things and. But he was still trying to keep up appearances so people in the know knew he was in trouble. But publicly, he. It hadn't hit the press yet, you know what I mean? So he was trying to pretend that he was a respectable person. He rented Greg a $1,200 apartment at 400 E. 57th St and took him to the opera, museums, ballet and theater, publicly introducing him as his protege.

[20:10] Jessica: I was just gonna say the most ludicrous thing. Aren't you glad that I'm learning how to self monitor? Isn't that like the joy of your life?

[20:20] Meg: It gets better. He bought him suits, monogrammed shirts, and jewelry. He paid for Greg's plastic surgery. They traveled together to Florida, California, Puerto Rico. And Greg flourished under Freddy's tutelage. His friend George said, Remember George?

[20:38] Jessica: Of course I remember George.

[20:39] Meg: Quote, before he met Freddie, his favorite movie was Friday the 13th. Now he talked about Broadway shows, the Bolshoi and F. Scott Fitzgerald. He used to be the toughest guy I ever met. Now he was a total snob. Freddie gave him a PhD in society.

[20:57] Jessica: That's a great line.

[20:58] Meg: I know. And this is just in a few months. Everything went south in just a few short months.

[21:04] Jessica: Wow.

[21:05] Meg: Greg told friends that Freddy was the father he never had. Now, Freddy did in fact, have a son from a miserable marriage that had lasted two years. When his 26 year old son, William came to dinner, Greg told William that Freddy was the father he never had. And then Freddy said Greg was the son he never had and that he was going to adopt him. And William, his actual son, lost his.

[21:33] Jessica: Shit. I was going to say, were they eating steak and were there knives for that purpose on the table? I mean, it's not, it's. Wait, what's the son's name again? William. William. It's not like William didn't know that Freddie was a total piece of shit. But if he, if he needed to confirm anything. Well, it's good to have closure.

[21:55] Meg: Yeah. There you go. In August 1982, Freddie was forced to resign from Congress.

[22:02] Jessica: Shocker. Bye.

[22:04] Meg: He pled guilty to tax evasion, failing to report income, drug possession, and for paying the tuition of the daughter of a naval employee who awarded contracts to a campaign contributor. So it's just, he was like, is there a. A way of being corrupt that I haven't explored yet. I'll try that.

[22:26] Jessica: Oh God. This guy. And you know what's so ridiculous, Meg? Is that there you. You have introduced us to so many men who have the same affliction. I feel like, like at some point we need to do like a rogues gallery of these degenerates who all have the same mental malfunction.

[22:49] Meg: While Freddy was waiting for his sentencing. It's going to take a turn.

[22:54] Jessica: Is he killed?

[22:55] Meg: Do you want to know?

[22:56] Jessica: Yeah.

[22:57] Meg: All right. It's sad.

[22:59] Jessica: Is it gruesome?

[23:01] Meg: Do you want to know?

[23:01] Jessica: Yes.

[23:03] Meg: While Freddie was waiting for his sentencing, Greg was in New York on October 5th at 6:30 in the morning. The maid couldn't get into Freddy's bathroom at Sutton Place. The door was locked. When she and the valet forced the door open, they found Greg's naked dead body on the floor surrounded by pills. He had written on his chest in blue felt tip pen, I will always love you. XOXOX Sin angel he also left a note. Good morning. I am sorry I went out with friends last night, but sometimes I have to be with people my own age. I hope you can forgive or understand. I won't be going to Boston as much in the future. You're right. There's not as much there as there used to be. Love, Sin Angel.

[24:02] Jessica: I'm confused by this. I thought that Freddie was amazing to him. So was he killing himself because he was upset with Freddie, something that he was doing?

[24:16] Meg: I think he was lost in a lot of ways. And he got mixed up with this guy who. I mean, amazing to him. What, by like dressing him up like a peacock and showing him off? I mean, is that really.

[24:31] Jessica: Well, he did say, this is the father I never had. He clearly felt like he was benefiting enormously.

[24:39] Meg: Yeah, because he was valuing the wrong things. Right. I mean, if you care about jewelry and a watch. I mean, does he even know what a father is supposed to do? Also, this guy's having sex with him. I don't know if that's a father never had.

[24:53] Jessica: That is a problematic.

[24:55] Meg: Right.

[24:56] Jessica: Yeah. I'm not saying that he's stable, like obviously not going on.

[25:00] Meg: And we. Right. And we also know that Freddie is not a great guy because he's not a great guy to anybody else. And why would we think that the one person in the universe he would actually be like, decent to beyond all of the things he bought him?

[25:18] Jessica: You're right. That's a very good point. There is no track record of decency. Just the moniker. Sin angel is so it says so much, doesn't it? Yeah, very sad. Very sad. Unsurprising in many ways, but incredibly sad.

[25:38] Meg: A month later, Freddie started serving his sentence of a year and a day in federal prison. He served only five months of that sentence, paid a $20,000 fine, and returned the $425,000 he had received in pension payments during his fake retirement. After prison, he returned to New York. He never spoke of Greg and only referenced his crimes at his sentencing. Quote, these acts to which I have pled guilty were irresponsible, unnecessary, foolish, and wrong.

[26:18] Jessica: We have the identical expression on our faces right now, and I think it says so much.

[26:23] Meg: The reason I asked you about party politics at the top is because in this article that Pete Hamill wrote for New York Magazine, his opinion was there was a good Fred and a bad Freddy. So there's a good guy who did all these good deeds, these things for the people, the food stamps, et cetera. But then he had demons, and Freddie was the demon. I disagree. I think he did those good deeds

[26:58] Jessica: to cover up the shit.

[27:00] Meg: To cover up the shit. And that was, you know, like you said earlier, Democrats had a lot of power in New York, and if you wanted to get into politics, you're going to be a Democrat and you were going to do the things that Democrats found really popular, which would be inner city gardens and food stamps. I don't think this guy actually gave a shit.

[27:18] Jessica: Well, I, I, A, I agree with you, B, I think it's really facile to say that there's a Dr. Jekyll and a Mr. Hyde. I think that it lets the person off the hook. It's saying, okay, well, there's this whole. Your, your, your being. We can discount it. We can just say, oh, that's the bad boy. Let's. We don't like bad boys, so we're gonna focus on the good boy. It's easier to focus on the good boy. Everyone, no matter how fractured they seem, unless you're really, like, ready for, you know, you've got a multiple personality situation going on. Sybil. Sybil. Oh, my God. Sally Field. Let's get her. Let's get her on the show. We are integrated beings.

[28:06] Meg: Sure.

[28:06] Jessica: And Freddie. Freddie knew what he was doing.

[28:12] Meg: I think so. But we have told stories where there was a turning point that then led to all the awful things that happened.

[28:23] Jessica: Absolutely. And I'm only saying, living side by side.

[28:27] Meg: Right, right, right. And I'm saying that this is not that story either. I don't think he suddenly became a Bad person because of his horrible coke habit or whatever. You know what I mean? I think he was pretty consistent his whole life, in fact.

[28:44] Jessica: Yeah. And, you know, the more opportunity that he created for himself, the worse his crimes became. And that's. That's the thing. Right. It's like he was orchestrating his own move up the ladder in a very calculated way to benefit himself in a wide variety of manners. So, you know, I don't agree with Pete Hamill's approach, and I think it's very outdated, which, again, goes to the heart of what we do. I think it's a very outdated way of looking at motives and potential mental illness. Whatever he had Freddie, but I think it lets him off the hook.

[29:30] Meg: And I think we definitely need to do a follow up about this first offenders program that I'm sure there are many people out there who wish never existed. Because that sounds like, horrible.

[29:43] Jessica: No, disgusting. Truly disgusting. When you were talking about the kid in dc, you used the word kid several times. Did you mean always underage when you said the word kid?

[29:52] Meg: He was 16.

[29:53] Jessica: Yeah. Okay, so you did.

[29:54] Meg: Yeah.

[29:55] Jessica: Vomitus. Vomitrocious.

[29:58] Meg: Well, thank you for listening.

[29:59] Jessica: Are you joking? It's fascinating. I hate this guy. Okay. So I tried to research the veracity of what I said about third and 43 in the lyrics to New York Groove. I remember vividly reading something about how that's what that was about. That third and 43 was a place to pick up prostitutes, particularly male hustlers. And I was so surprised that I remembered it. But I cannot now find that information. So all I can say is the song says 3rd and 43, exit to the 9th, 53. No, the song says 43. That's why I was saying yes. So I was wondering if the meat rack extended 10 blocks or I don't know what, but the song lyrics that I was professing talked about. What you were talking about may not be accurate, but I do know that 3rd Avenue and 43rd street exit to the night. It's gonna be ecstasy. That that is the song lyric. And that somewhere I had read that the corner of 3rd and 43 was where you could pick up trade. That's alls I'm saying. Got it. So I might have been. Surely nothing. No. All right, enough of admitting being wrong.

[31:29] Meg: How would you write about.

[31:31] Jessica: Today I am going to talk about something that is, to me, very amusing. We have talked several times about what we liked to drink in the 80s when we were children. Yes. What alcohol did we favor as children? And we have giggled about your slo, Gin fizz and Onward and upward. However, I started thinking about cocktails of the 80s and I was like, what did people really drink? Like we were kids coming up with all kinds of ridiculous nonsense. True. We were in college in the later part of the 80s and I remember and you know, college is sort of different than always being in a bar because we've talked about this before. Kenyon was beer and grain alcohol punch at parties. So everyone was like ready to, you know, go to the hospital, pretty much being in an alcohol induced coma. But I was like, what did people really get into? And I was so entertained because the real trend of cocktails and the names of cocktails in the 80s in my mind, my interpretation is that it's all about the singles bar because the names were smutty. There were so many cocktails with ridiculous dirty names that were obviously fuzzy.

[32:51] Meg: Nipple. Yeah.

[32:52] Jessica: Close though that would distressing.

[32:56] Meg: What is it called?

[32:56] Jessica: I'd like a hairy ass. Got one of those. What's it called? I'm going to read a list of you.

[33:03] Meg: There is something fuzzy.

[33:04] Jessica: Yes, there is. My contention is that it was to be provocative. So when you belly up to the bar and you're like, hi, I'd like a. And fill in one of the names. I'm about to say. It was like a conversation starter.

[33:22] Meg: Yeah.

[33:24] Jessica: So I researched. I know you're amazed. A whole bunch of different places from Difford's Guide for discerning drinkers to punchdrink.com timeout new york and a couple of other places. And then I also remembered one of the biggest TV shows of the 80s and the biggest film were about bars, Cheers and the obvious name Cocktail.

[33:55] Meg: Oh, okay.

[33:57] Jessica: It wasn't for us.

[33:59] Meg: It wasn't a great movie.

[34:00] Jessica: It was a terrible movie. But people loved it. It is. It has given us the canker sore on the lip of music. Kokomo. Yes.

[34:10] Meg: I love that song.

[34:12] Jessica: I hate that song. How can you like that song? Song so catchy. It's a earworm from hell. It's the worst. They were like, no, no, no.

[34:24] Meg: Stop, stop, stop.

[34:25] Jessica: They were like, hey, Brian Wilson, can we just ask you from your padded cell to come up with some nonsense?

[34:31] Meg: And you. Do you know who joined the band briefly to sing that song?

[34:36] Jessica: It wasn't like John Stamos.

[34:38] Meg: Yes.

[34:38] Jessica: Yeah. So fucking ridiculous. Anyway, so 80s was cocktail culture time and there was a lot of advertising behind drinking and cheers and cocktail the movie. I mean, the fact that there was a movie about Tom Cruise flipping bottles like, give Me a break.

[34:58] Meg: And even then he was like, I practice. Don't you remember? He was like, oh, he made a video about his research.

[35:03] Jessica: Yeah, big deal. Congratulations. Well, you do know that there are. There are. That there are contests, like bartender contests for the bottle flipping.

[35:14] Meg: I love it.

[35:15] Jessica: I'm sure it's on, like, ESPN 42. Anyway, so. Also, 80s cocktails, back to your slo. Gin fizz were notable for being incredibly sweet. Everything was like candy. It got you drunk and it got girls drinking a lot. One of the things. Well, yes, but the ingredients that would be behind the bar that are very 80s, as relayed to moi by Difford's Guide for Discerning Drinkers, are as follows. First off, the drink had to have a name with plenty of sexual innuendo. It had to have a neon color, preferably bright blue from Curacao or green from Midori. Remember Midori Melon? It was a melon liqueur.

[36:09] Meg: That explains a lot.

[36:10] Jessica: Yes, very bad. Orange juice from concentrate. Sour mix that came in a powdered form that had to be mixed with water. Always vodka and vodka. Absolute vodka was very 80s. Absolute perfection was the first of Absolut's famous ad campaigns launched in 1980. Cream of Coconut, Southern Comfort, Bailey's original Irish cream liqueur.

[36:41] Meg: All this stuff makes me nauseous.

[36:43] Jessica: I'm sorry. Peach schnapps.

[36:46] Meg: Oh, my God.

[36:47] Jessica: The alcohol that most people can't drink because it's what they drank first and then threw up so violently that they could never smell it again. And glassware that was either huge or teeny tiny. There were a lot of shots that were drinks, and we'll get to that in a moment. In fact, at Kenyon, there was the Village Inn, nicknamed the Vi, and then the IV because you would just mainline your liquor. And there was a bartendress named Lynn behind the bar who was the biggest vulgarian you'd ever meet in your life. She just loved fucking with these preppy kids. And she would mix kamikazes and Red Deaths.

[37:35] Meg: Oh, my God.

[37:35] Jessica: And serve them in those super low ball glasses and be like, you. I'll drink you under the table, you little shits. And she did, but everyone tried to keep up with her. But we're going to get to more drinks that are in tiny glasses in just a moment. Some other drinks of the 80s, kamikazes, red deaths, Alabama slammer, Long Island Iced Tea.

[38:01] Meg: Right.

[38:02] Jessica: Fuzzy Navel.

[38:03] Meg: Fuzzy Navel, which is also a little

[38:06] Jessica: gross, but also a Slippery Nipple.

[38:10] Meg: Oh, that's what I did.

[38:13] Jessica: A screaming Orgasm Sex on the beach, Blue Lagoon French martini. That was fine. A Woo Woo, A fuzzy woo woo. A B52, which was a layered shot. So, you know, remember the alcohol would go in and like the heaviest, like the cream of coconut would be on the bottom and then they'd. It would be, oh my God, I can't believe I remember this. It's called a float. To have it like in the layers.

[38:40] Meg: Never really understood the purpose of shots so much. It was not my thing.

[38:44] Jessica: It was because you didn't want to drink alcohol.

[38:47] Meg: What do you mean?

[38:48] Jessica: Well, you slam a shot, it goes right down. You're not savoring, you're not sipping a drink and having to taste it. It was a way to get drunk very fast without having to taste anything.

[38:59] Meg: Appeal of that.

[39:00] Jessica: Well, that's a good thing.

[39:01] Meg: Is it?

[39:02] Jessica: Yes. And finally, a mudslide. Now the fuzzy Navel. Not nipple.

[39:08] Meg: Sorry about that.

[39:09] Jessica: No, it's going to be my favorite thing for all time and I'm going to introduce it into every podcast from now on. So what I think is really interesting is how do drinks come into being? And frequently, as in the Harvey Wallbanger, they are invented by Madison Avenue. That was the case with the fuzzy Navel. Here's a quick little story about how that happened. It was invented in Florida in the 80s. Earl LaRue, a flavor scientist for National Distillers, wanted to come up with a peach flavored drink because he liked peaches.

[39:48] Meg: Fuzzy for peach fuzz.

[39:50] Jessica: Yes. In an effort to turn around sagging sales on the heels of a wave of anti alcohol sentiment, executives at National Distillers asked him to help develop a lighter, sweeter, lower proof product. Why not peach liqueur, he thought. Decu Peach tree schnapps was inauspiciously released in the early fall of 1984. Part of schnapps. I don't think that part carried over.

[40:18] Meg: Can I interrupt for a second? So, yeah, I read in one of the other things that, you know, for one of the. Our other stories, I can't remember what the idea that when pot got really popular in the 60s and 70s, people were drinking less. So that sort of speaks to what you're saying. They need to bring it back.

[40:38] Jessica: How do we get them hooked on the hooch? Well, this fruity schnapps hit the American market to decent success. It was very different from the historically dry fruit based schnapps that had been invented in Europe in the 1500s. The New York Times said of peach schnapps when it was released. It's sweet and uncomplicated, something one does not have to get used to, like whiskey or dry red wine. So to your point, yeah, get some drinking. At the time, whenever they were rolling out a new product, Jack Doyle, an executive at National Distillers, would have his buddy Ray Foley come into their Park Avenue offices to offer some thoughts. A former Marine, one time joke writer for Johnny Carson and longtime bartender, he was managing a bar in New Jersey and his bar sold more alcohol than any other bar in the state. So if he liked something, they wanted to know about it. He said for day to day drinks, you can't be doing these stupid cocktails with 14 ingredients, five of them organic, two you could only get on Wednesday. He said he was a firm believer in making simple cocktails. He opened up right on Doyle's desk the Peach tree schnapps and some orange juice.

[41:54] Meg: That's it.

[41:55] Jessica: Fuzz from the peaches and a navel orange with which he garnished the glass. That was it. The Fuzzy Navel was born. The distillery immediately bought suitcases for all of their salesmen and filled it with bottles of peach tree schnapps, orange juice and navel oranges. And they went to all of the bars in the Tri State area to begin with and just mixed drinks. It took off. And I love this. For the record, multiple cocktail blogs repeat a story that a liquor distributor named Jack Sherman created Fuzzy Navel at the Wagon to bar in Omaha. That would be bullshit. How would a product launched in New York first take off in Nebraska? I likewise have found no proof, though Sherman may have created. Again, back to you, Meg. The Hairy Navel, which calls on the addition of vodka.

[42:52] Meg: Okay, so those first two ingredients plus vodka, plus vodka. Now no hairy nipple.

[43:00] Jessica: No. But clearly we are going to mix that drink and talk about it on the. I just decided that we're going to. We're going to make a Slippery Nipple and then add vodka. So it's a hairy slippery navel.

[43:13] Meg: Wait, so the three ingredient, the vodka edition makes it a hairy navel.

[43:18] Jessica: Right? And it's fuzzy if it's peach schnapps and orange juice. And if you add vodka, it gets hairy.

[43:25] Meg: Okay.

[43:25] Jessica: It bypasses. It bypasses fuz and go straight to full on hairy. There's also the Woo Woo, I'm so excited. Which also has a hairy variety. So the Woo Woo, another fruity American cocktail, easy to make because it's vodka peach liqueur, which was really having its heyday.

[43:48] Meg: My God.

[43:48] Jessica: And cranberry juice and is traditionally served in a highball glass. It got its name in the 1980s at a time in which cocktails containing peach liqueur were beginning to gain recognition. So says my source. So we agree.

[44:02] Meg: And your source is not Peach International?

[44:05] Jessica: No, no. Many believe that the Woo Woo recipe originated in First Edition bar in Bayside, New York. Although the exact origins of the cocktail are uncertain. They do know that the bartender normally shouts Woo Woo when serving the cocktail, hence its name. It is best recommended for drinkers who like very sweet drinks and do not taste the alcohol. Now, it already has vodka in it, so I'm not sure what makes it hairy. We can get back to that, too. But the most important drink, the most by far that was invented in New York city in the 80s, was invented at the Odeon, our favorite place.

[44:47] Meg: Yes. Which we still need to go to together.

[44:50] Jessica: Yes. It was invented by bartender Toby Cecchini. He was bartending at Tribeca's famous restaurant where SNL cast members usually had their party. Cecchini mixed vodka, cranberry, lime, Cointreau, mixed it into a martini glass, and defined the decade. What drink is that?

[45:14] Meg: Is it a Cosmopolitan?

[45:15] Jessica: Yes, it is. And it gained notoriety in the 90s. Yeah, I don't think Sex in the

[45:20] Meg: City, I don't think I'd heard of it until Sex and the City, but

[45:23] Jessica: it started in the 80s at our favorite place at Odeon. And that is a drink that is carrying on through the ages where Sex on the beach, like, you know, when you're 22, you go, I want a Sex on the Beach. And when you're an actual grown up and like, hi, I'm looking for Sex on the beach on the rocks. You're just a doof.

[45:47] Meg: Yeah. What would you be embarrassed to order now? A Long Island Iced Tea. I'd be embarrassed.

[45:52] Jessica: I think, though, that Long island ice, like there. Because you know me, there's a part of me that just thinks it's all really funny. But, like, what could I really not? That's the problem with me. There's very little that you have shame about. Yes. But I would have a problem with the Slippery Nipple. I couldn't say it. I'd just be like.

[46:14] Meg: And then they'd say. Can you say that louder, please?

[46:17] Jessica: Is that it?

[46:18] Meg: No, sorry, I can't. I don't understand. Louder.

[46:21] Jessica: Cosmopolitan. Oh, okay, got it. Yes. I guess that would. That would be it. It's also just a word I've never been comfortable with, despite being extraordinarily sex positive. Just hate the word nipple. I don't know why.

[46:37] Meg: And I used it earlier.

[46:39] Jessica: You did, but it's. But isn't that nice to know that about me? Like there is a word. You're like, yup, and I plan to use it all the time.

[46:48] Meg: Have you tried one of these espresso martinis?

[46:52] Jessica: I have had one.

[46:54] Meg: You know, I don't see the allure.

[46:56] Jessica: It's not for me. I also, unsurprisingly, it stresses me, stresses me out the concept because I'm such a bad sleeper and alcohol disturbs your. Your sleep and then add coffee and express it and I'm just like, that's just like death for. That's. It's not a red death for me.

[47:15] Meg: Brown death taste combo in my head does not work.

[47:20] Jessica: No. And, and it's not like, you know, like you put sambuca in your espresso or something that is centered around the espresso. And the other thing is there to highlight it. This is just taking two things that don't belong together and putting it in a martini glass, which I think is from a time period when it was like, if it's in a martini glass, we can sell it. And I don't know who that was that I just did, but it's.

[47:47] Meg: I'm not really a cocktail person, but I am very intrigued now by the idea of having a true cocktail party with cocktails, like 80s cocktails, just for fun, just sample them.

[48:02] Jessica: I agree with you. I think that would be.

[48:04] Meg: We would need to have a bartender who knows what they're doing or just all of us like doing chemistry for fun.

[48:10] Jessica: Well, I think that it's like, if you're gonna do it, it's three cocktails on offer and that's it. And you either have them made by someone who knows how to flip a bottle around or pre mixed pour it in a glass. I always was a cocktail person. I enjoyed it much more. I mean, wine has always given me a headache and I didn't get really enjoy beer until I was like in my late 30s, which I know is weird. I was a very eager and very bad drinker. So I did a lot of like drinking so much that then I was like, oh, I've poisoned myself with alcohol. This is bad.

[48:50] Meg: No more vodka for me. No more gin for me.

[48:54] Jessica: I can't smell rum ever. It's just bad. But no, I think that would be totally fun. I mean, and the thing about cocktails is that the accoutrements are so fantastic.

[49:06] Meg: Well, that's what I'm Thinking beautiful martini glasses. What do you call the stirrers?

[49:11] Jessica: Swizzle. Yeah.

[49:14] Meg: And our little cloth cocktail napkins. We could really do something classy.

[49:19] Jessica: Well, you do know that my birthday is coming up at the end of the month,

[49:24] Meg: and you'll be. Oh, right, of course. Because it's the day before my wedding anniversary.

[49:28] Jessica: Exactamundo.

[49:30] Meg: And you'll be back.

[49:31] Jessica: Okay, so maybe I'll have a cocktail party for my birthday. Ooh, I love that idea.

[49:36] Meg: I will help you with that.

[49:37] Jessica: Yay.

[49:48] Meg: So what should our tie in be?

[49:50] Jessica: The only thing I can think of. And it feels very beneath both of us, but that.

[49:56] Meg: I love that there are things beneath us there.

[49:59] Jessica: Thank God. Thank God there are still a few things beneath us. That Freddy plied poor Greg with fancy drinks, including cocktails. Cocktail bars. Here's your martini, your French martini, your French 75. I don't know why that's. Now the voice. Hey, kids, belly up to the bar. It's suddenly the 1930s, and I'm.

[50:29] Meg: By the way, Freddie dyed his hair red.

[50:32] Jessica: Red Fred.

[50:36] Meg: He didn't have a lot of hair, and what he had, he dyed red.

[50:40] Jessica: So funny that you should mention this, because I forgot who I was. Oh, I think it was our friend Kim. We were so. I desperately need to get my hair colored. And we were talking about how awful it is when you're in between colors and you've got terrible roots and you use that wretched spray that.

[50:58] Meg: I can't do it anymore.

[50:59] Jessica: The minute you touch your hair, you have. You're covered in this hair.

[51:04] Meg: Looks good.

[51:05] Jessica: It never looks good. It always looks like shoe polish. Anyway, so we were talking about it, and I had this flash, and I was like, do you remember GLH number nine? And she took a beat, and I was like, it was a spray. And she's like, oh, my God. It was that infomercial.

[51:24] Meg: It was that men used to cover their bald spots.

[51:26] Jessica: Yes, it was. It was head. Wait, wait, wait. It was not only head paint, but what made it even better was that it had fibers in it.

[51:34] Meg: I know.

[51:35] Jessica: So that if you had any fuzz left, it would cling.

[51:38] Meg: It would cling to it.

[51:39] Jessica: And then you look like a manchi chi.

[51:42] Meg: I am not going to say too much about this story because it'll give away who it was. But I had a very, very good friend who I went to college with. And, you know, you know when the guys start, like, putting on a little bit of weight in their 30s or they start losing their hair, and they're like, what do you mean? I'm not gonna be a young stud forever? And everybody is like, yeah, sorry about that. Aging to the world. Well, I had a friend who overused that product. And all of us who knew, all

[52:18] Jessica: of you were like, who's gonna tell him?

[52:19] Meg: Who's gonna tell him?

[52:21] Jessica: Who's gonna fucking tell him? Somebody needs to.

[52:24] Meg: And I would talk to his really close guy friends, and I was like, it actually needs to be. It needs to come from a guy. It cannot come from a former girl. And guess who ended up telling him.

[52:36] Jessica: Who?

[52:37] Meg: He started dating this, like, awesome woman, and she took it on, and the next thing we knew, he'd shaved his head. And we were all like, thank you. That is so much better.

[52:50] Jessica: That is doing God's work right there.

[52:53] Meg: Yeah, but it was an awkward couple of years there.

[52:57] Jessica: It's bad. Do you know what?

[52:58] Meg: Glh Especially under theater lights.

[53:00] Jessica: Oh, God. Wait, do you know what GLH stood for?

[53:05] Meg: No.

[53:06] Jessica: Get ready. Great looking hair. Oh, God. Again, this is the trivia that I recall and why. I don't know.