[00:16] Meg: Welcome to Desperately Seeking the 80s.

[00:18] Jessica: I am Meg and I am Jessica. And Meg and I have been friends since 1982. We got through middle school and high school together here in New York City, where we still live and where we

[00:29] Meg: podcast about New York city in the 80s. I do ripped friends the headlines and

[00:32] Jessica: I do pop culture.

[00:34] Meg: This is the first time we have seen each other since our launch party.

[00:38] Jessica: Our launch party. Which was magnificent.

[00:41] Meg: It was. And it was at Malt and Mold on 21st and 2nd. I haven't responded to Kevin's lovely email to us.

[00:49] Jessica: Did I tell you that I sent our aged parents to 26th street by accident? No. Why?

[00:55] Meg: Did. Why?

[00:56] Jessica: I don't know. I was so flustered with all that was going on. My dad was like, well, where is it? I'm like, it's 26th and 2nd. Work it out. Look it up.

[01:05] Meg: Oh, no.

[01:06] Jessica: And they didn't look it up, so they just went to 26.

[01:09] Meg: And the phrase, I'm glad you didn't share that with me that night.

[01:13] Jessica: I wouldn't have shared anything with you that night. Are you kidding me?

[01:17] Meg: That would have been so many moving parts. But, oh, my gosh, the people did so well in the 80s trivia.

[01:23] Jessica: Yes, yes, it was. It was a really, really good party.

[01:27] Meg: It was good.

[01:28] Jessica: I'm very, very pleased with it. And.

[01:30] Meg: And Kevin at Malt and Mold was very pleased with it, which warmed my heart because I felt hosting us. But then he said thank you to us, which just makes it feel like win, win all over the place.

[01:42] Jessica: Well, I hope that people bought a

[01:43] Meg: lot of beer and that they'll go back because it's such a wonderful warm place.

[01:49] Jessica: It's the nicest place.

[01:51] Meg: It's very special. Yes. And it's. It's special.

[01:54] Jessica: It's so special. It needs a theme song. Malt and Mold needs a theme song.

[01:58] Meg: Oh, my God.

[01:58] Jessica: They need like a Cheers esque.

[02:00] Meg: I love that theme song.

[02:02] Jessica: I think it would do wonders for them.

[02:04] Meg: What a great idea.

[02:06] Jessica: Should we do just like our other musical offerings for that? No. No, we don't. But we're going to figure it out. We're going to be like, what can we rip off? That sounds vaguely. Maybe this is an AI moment. No, it's not. No. That gives copyright problems. Yeah. Because they feed all the data in from things that already exist.

[02:29] Meg: I know how AI works.

[02:30] Jessica: I'm just saying. And then what will pop out is the cheers them. And then we'll be like, this song is great. How ever could that have escaped us before? Oh, wait, What? Kelly.

[02:43] Meg: Oh, you went on quite a journey there.

[02:45] Jessica: I did. I'm in. I'm caffeinated. It's Sunday. You know that I like doing the podcasts when it's a weekend morning. Ish. Because I'm much more peppy. I haven't had enough time to be soured on the world yet.

[03:00] Meg: I don't think I did know that. I'll keep that in mind.

[03:04] Jessica: There's nothing we can do about it.

[03:06] Meg: About it? I mean, like, schedule as it is. Like a jigsaw puzzle.

[03:09] Jessica: Yeah, it is as it is, but, you know.

[03:11] Meg: But anyway, happy launch.

[03:13] Jessica: Happy launch.

[03:14] Meg: And just so that everyone understands how our YouTube channel works, all of our audio podcasts are now on YouTube with a cute little video in the background. But it's an animation. It's not of us. And then we have additional video content which is called the More We Know Where We. Jessica and Meg. We school each other on things that we think the other one doesn't know about. New York city in the 80s.

[03:45] Jessica: Yay.

[03:45] Meg: It's really fun. They're like five minute little videos.

[03:48] Jessica: Yes.

[03:49] Meg: And they're adorable. And they'll come out. I don't know if we don't really have a regular schedule for those, but there's one out now and I'll put up another one this week. Yeah.

[03:56] Jessica: If you've wondered what we looked like and you wonder what we, you know, the amount of eye rolling we do at each other, you will. You will see it in real life.

[04:15] Meg: I think you're gonna like this engagement question. Do you have a secret quiet spot in New York City where you can go if you feel the need?

[04:28] Jessica: The New York Society Library.

[04:30] Meg: Okay, I knew you would have. Okay, tell me, tell me more.

[04:33] Jessica: I started going to the New York Society library in the 80s as a child. It is the last existing private library in New York city.

[04:43] Meg: It's on 79th, right?

[04:45] Jessica: Yes. It was founded in 1792, I believe, though not housed in that building, obviously. I think it moved to that building like in the 20s, maybe. I don't know. And it is the most beautiful, like, English club kind of looking place. Magnificent sweeping staircase reading rooms, like wood paneled reading rooms. And then the stacks are like the stacks underground in the New York Public Library. So, like, if you've seen Ghostbusters, you know, and you see like all like books on rows and rows of metal racks, that's what it is to go get the books. And it is. It's beautiful. They even do afternoon tea, if you remember, like Every day you can go have tea and it's just. It's gracious and it's beautiful and it's peaceful and everyone is there because they love books. And that makes me so happy.

[05:48] Meg: Do you have to be a member to go inside it?

[05:52] Jessica: Beyond the front desk, yes, but it's a very, very low membership fee.

[05:58] Meg: So it's like you can go to the Met, for example, without being a member. But to get inside of the New York City Library, you need to be a member of the library.

[06:08] Jessica: Okay, Correct. But it is a very low membership fee because, you know, they certainly want people to come and the other thing they do, and I don't know, I don't think that this you. I don't think you need to be a member for this, but you need to get a ticket. They do all kinds of literary talks and lectures and discussions every week. Books that are coming out. Books where it's like the 200th anniversary of something and they have exhibits. So it's wonderful.

[06:37] Meg: Cool. Thank you for sharing. My sources are New York Magazine and New York Times. On January 3, 1985, three bodies were found in an apartment at 25 Tudor City Place, which is a stone's throw from the UN at 42nd and 1st. Tudor City is a tiny neighborhood of stone and brick and terracotta facades with a few Tudor and Elizabethan touches like bay windows, arches, Tudor roses, towers and parapets. On the first floor of each building there are allegorical stained glass windows. It was developed in the 20s as a place for middle class people who wanted to be in walking distance from Grand Central. While the exteriors give an air of old world charm, the interiors were modern at the time of their construction, with garbage incinerators, Frigidaire refrigerators and Murphy beds. The apartments were marketed to single people and childless couples, and many were ultimately rent controlled. By the late 1980s, some studios in Tudor City still rented for $300 and sold for 120,000. And then after the 1987 crash, sold for 77,000.

[08:11] Jessica: Good God. Have you been inside Tudor City?

[08:14] Meg: You mean inside one of those apartments? No, I have. Okay.

[08:19] Jessica: It's everything you hoped it would be and more because it really is. The one that I was in was an alcove studio. It was the apartment of. It was my friend Laurie's friend's apartment and he's Turkish, so he had the whole thing done in the most lavish Turkish. Gorgeous fabrics and paint and just amazing. But a little jewel box exactly as you are describing. And you know, with like the Windows with the little panes. I forgot what that's called. But mullioned is that. A mullioned window is like you're walking into another time. So if you can get inside a Tudor City apartment, do it.

[09:01] Meg: But also just walking in that neighborhood, it's so quiet.

[09:05] Jessica: It is, you know, it's one of those. Is it overlooked because you can't get an apartment there? Is it just impossible to get an apartment?

[09:13] Meg: Well, I think that's part of it. And I think it's also because it's a dead end. You're not going to go through it to get somewhere else.

[09:21] Jessica: No, I mean impossible destination, impossible to get an apartment there. Yeah, is what I meant.

[09:26] Meg: I agreed with that. And I think also because you don't pass through it to go somewhere else like you do through other neighborhoods, it

[09:34] Jessica: is a destination, it is a contained community.

[09:38] Meg: The Tudor City Greens is a park nestled between 42nd and 41st and thank God is considered part of an historic district and therefore protected. And many an 80s developer tried to get their grubby hands on it, including the grubbiest.

[09:57] Jessica: Don't, don't do it.

[10:00] Meg: Helmsley and Trump. But they weren't able to do it. Too bad for you.

[10:05] Jessica: Good.

[10:05] Meg: So yeah, you know what, you can go sit in a beautiful quiet park. That's really, I think mostly just the neighbors. Enjoy. Fun fact. But back to the three dead bodies.

[10:21] Jessica: Enough about beautiful, lovely things to do. Here's the carnage.

[10:26] Meg: At 9:50am on January 3, Laszlo Stern entered the Tudor City studio apartment of his friend George Senti, a 62 year old photographer. George had given Laszlo a key and told him, if I don't answer the phone, come and wake me up. Laszlo had not heard from George since New Year's Eve, so he headed over. When he entered the apartment, he saw the body of George Senti with four bullet wounds in his chest, lying face down near the front door. Six feet away on the couch were the bodies of 29 year old fashion model Piroska Lantos and her friend 37 year old Agnes Gramis, each with two bullet wounds in their chest.

[11:15] Jessica: Wait, I'm confused. So if they were face down but their chests were visible, George was face

[11:22] Meg: down and had bullet wounds in his chest. They were face up on the couch and had bullet wounds in their chest. Okay, does that answer your question?

[11:33] Jessica: Yes.

[11:34] Meg: Okay. Both George and Peroska were well known in Little Hungary, another tiny neighborhood in Yorkville on Second Avenue between 79th and 80th Streets with a half dozen cafes and restaurants. That catered to Hungarian emigres.

[11:53] Jessica: We frequented those and they were wonderful.

[11:56] Meg: George had come to America in 1957 after losing his family to the Nazis and fleeing Soviet occupied Hungary. And he was 35 when he came to America. He had big dreams of being a fashion photographer, but he had a lot of emotional baggage which stood in the way of his business sense. He preened in little Hungary at the cafes and restaurants, but most of the old time Hungarian habitues knew he was all show. Some compared him to Steve Martin's wild and crazy guy with a sun lamp, tan, unflattering, chestnut brown, dyed hair, tight designer jeans, silk shirts, gold medallions.

[12:45] Jessica: That sounds very wild and crazy.

[12:47] Meg: His facialist said, I think he had a bad facelift in Hungary. The skin was stretched so tight over the bone, it looked like a death mask.

[12:57] Jessica: Ooh, everyone's reading George. This is just kind of mean. Good God, give the guy a break.

[13:04] Meg: He told everyone he was a top fashion photographer. And that quote, after the age of 24, women are no good.

[13:12] Jessica: And now I don't like him, Boo. I mean, you can see on your

[13:15] Meg: facelift why people might have been reading him a bit.

[13:20] Jessica: Hair dye, bad tan, Boo.

[13:23] Meg: I mean, I'm sorry about the Nazi situation because, like, it really sucked for him when he was young, but then he actually did end up being an.

[13:33] Jessica: Tragedy and assholery are not mutually exclusive.

[13:37] Meg: Yes. In 1968, he opened a photography studio with Clara Ach, another Hungarian photographer. She was new to the city and needed a translator and help getting work. And George needed a woman to obsess over. He would follow Clara everywhere. He would press his face up against the window of the restaurant she was eating at.

[14:00] Jessica: Oh, like Victor Victoria.

[14:02] Meg: Yeah.

[14:03] Jessica: Creepier. No, I. I just had a visual.

[14:06] Meg: He would stand guard outside her apartment building, staring up at her window.

[14:11] Jessica: That's super bad.

[14:13] Meg: Clara finally had enough and dissolved their partnership in the photography studio, paying George $25,000, which is a lot, I know. So she desperately wanted to get away from George. With this windfall, George bought a silver Lincoln Continental in of all places, Hungary.

[14:38] Jessica: Weird.

[14:39] Meg: Periodically he would get a cheap ticket to Budapest and drive his fancy car around town. And everyone thought he was a big shot.

[14:47] Jessica: Oh yeah, this is all coming together.

[14:51] Meg: That's when he met Pirosca Lantos in 1978. Peroska was 23 and already a top model in Hungary. She'd grown up in a war torn country and married young. Her first husband, an architect, was controlling and abusive and jealous of her career and they divorced. She Married again to a graphic designer. But he was even more jealous than her first husband. Piroska wanted out. Out of her marriage and out of the country. She was considered Hungary's top model, but as an employee of the state, she made only $200 a month.

[15:34] Jessica: Oof.

[15:35] Meg: She dreamed of coming to New York. And George Senti, who she assumed was a famous connected fashion photographer with his fancy car, said he could help her once she got there. He wooed her with furs and jeans and makeup he smuggled into the country.

[15:54] Jessica: You know, you just reminded me of. Do you remember how jeans were currency back then? Yes, yes. Blue jeans, like.

[16:03] Meg: Like Levi's and also Coca Cola shirts.

[16:06] Jessica: Yep. Yes. But blue jeans were like. That was. That was like the big ticket item if you. If you were trying to, I don't know, woo someone, but you're right, trade with someone, anyone coming from outside of the United States. It was a big deal.

[16:24] Meg: It was a big deal. And if you could. If you were visiting somebody in certain parts of Europe, if you could bring, like, Coca Cola T shirts or jeans, like, they were like, oh, my God, thank you so much. Because they just didn't have access to that stuff.

[16:38] Jessica: Right.

[16:39] Meg: Yeah. That was interesting, wasn't it?

[16:41] Jessica: I hadn't thought about that in so long. You just said he wooed her with furs and blue jeans. And I'm like, ah, what a moment.

[16:48] Meg: He photographed her in front of the Danube and told her the photos would appear in Vogue. Piroska's family hated George. Her mother said he had on so much gold jewelry, he looked like a Christmas tree. And George started telling all his friends in Little Hungary that he was in, engaged to Peroska.

[17:09] Jessica: Oops.

[17:10] Meg: It's unclear if Perowska was saying anything to anyone about the George situation. She was a very private person. Some said she was shy. Some said she was cunning. All said she was mysterious. Then, after years of yearning to break out of communist Hungary, Piroska somehow managed to get to Paris in 1980. There she married a Frenchman, became a French citizen, and was signed by a top modeling agency. Things were looking up. She had one close friend in Paris, Agnes Gramis, who had also fled Hungary and was working in Paris as a housekeeper. And all was well until Piroska's new French husband turned out to be a scam artist who kept showing up at her modeling jobs, demanding money.

[18:05] Jessica: She could really pick them.

[18:08] Meg: Yeah, that is definitely a theme. She was actually scared for her life. And who did she call?

[18:16] Jessica: Creepy George.

[18:17] Meg: Creepy George Senti, her rich photographer friend. And begged him to help her get to New York. George was thrilled and started telling everyone that he was going to marry the most beautiful woman in the world. Piroska arrived in New York March 7, 1984, and George set her up in the studio apartment at 25 Tudor Place. And that's not really what Peroszka had in mind. Like, he'd been talking big, and she showed up at 25 Tudor City, which, I mean, no slam on Tudor City, but it wasn't the place where a top fashion photographer would live.

[18:58] Jessica: Facts fair.

[19:00] Meg: Peroska quickly realized that George wasn't the man he claimed to be. But she barely had time to deal with that. She signed with Legends Modeling agency and was soon appearing in ads for Barneys and Gimbels and was walking for Bob Mackie and Diane von Furstenberg.

[19:18] Jessica: Not bad.

[19:19] Meg: She was 29, older than most fresh faces, but. But she started booking immediately. She was soon making $2,500 a day.

[19:30] Jessica: Damn.

[19:31] Meg: Yeah. And she moved to her own Place at 399 East 72nd Street.

[19:37] Jessica: Oh, nice. Yeah.

[19:39] Meg: But George wasn't going to just go away. That wasn't really the George way.

[19:45] Jessica: Did you say 72nd Street?

[19:47] Meg: Yeah.

[19:47] Jessica: Okay, so she's on 72nd between 1st and 2nd. Nice.

[19:52] Meg: George started showing up at her job, following her everywhere. She told one friend, I'm fed up with George. He's old and ugly. He keeps telling me he loves me and that he'll wait forever. I'd rather die first.

[20:06] Jessica: Guess what?

[20:08] Meg: Sorry.

[20:09] Jessica: That was just wrong. Poor peroska. Yeah.

[20:13] Meg: On December 17th, her friend Agnes came to New York to visit Peroska. George hated Agnes. He called her a Nazi bitch and was ferociously jealous of the women's friendship. He had two mattresses delivered to Piroska's place and told the delivery men to put them on opposite sides of the apartment. He thought they were having sex.

[20:40] Jessica: How peculiar were they?

[20:43] Meg: I don't know.

[20:45] Jessica: Hmm.

[20:46] Meg: I mean, if they were, I'm like, oh, she finally found somebody who, you know, she could be happy with. And if they weren't, he was just being a jealous dick.

[20:56] Jessica: But also, how bizarre that he would deliver the mattresses.

[21:00] Meg: Well, that was his way of saying, you're not allowed to sleep in the same bed.

[21:03] Jessica: No, no, I, I, I'm just saying it was a very weird thing to do, that's all. I get the message. It's still just cuckoo ka chew. Yeah, that's it.

[21:13] Meg: Agnes wasn't a huge fan of George either, and kept encouraging her friend to cut ties with him. For most of December, George stalked and harassed the two women, leaving countless messages on the answering machine and chasing them around town. On December 31, Agnes had lunch in Little Hungary and told an old friend that George had finally agreed, agreed to leave Piroska alone. The two women would see him that night for the last time. They'd agreed to have dinner with him. At 6:45, George left a message on another Hungarian friend's machine. I will probably not see you again tonight. I'm going to end the Perowska affair. I'm going to throw acid in her face and then shoot her. Now, the friend didn't do anything about that, which is a bummer. Then he went and picked up Agnes and Peroska and took them out for dinner in Soho. Their waiter later told the press, they looked so unhappy, I thought it was a funeral. They all stayed out until 4am, returning in the wee hours to their respective apartments. So, you know, they spent a miserable night together and everyone went home. And that could have just been that. But then the next evening, January 1st, no one's gotten enough sleep. Clearly, George picked them up for dinner again. So remember, the women were like, one more dinner and then they're like, okay, we'll see you again. You know, ladies, let this be a lesson to you.

[22:53] Jessica: Just the one even. In fact, how about none?

[22:56] Meg: How about none? So this time, after dinner, they went back to George's Tudor City apartment. No one will ever know for sure what happened next, but this is what investigators found. Agnes appeared to have been smoking at Galoise and flipping through a fashion magazine. When she was shot in the chest, she used the magazine as a shield.

[23:23] Jessica: Ah.

[23:24] Meg: Piroska was also on the couch with a glass of champagne when she was shot. George's four shots were self inflicted in his chest and he choked to death on his own blood.

[23:38] Jessica: I find that fascinating. Shooting. How can you shoot yourself four times

[23:42] Meg: and then choke on your own blood? So he wasn't shooting himself in the heart. He wasn't shooting himself in the head. He was shooting himself in places where it just wasn't fatal, so. And he just kept shooting himself.

[23:55] Jessica: Lunatic.

[23:56] Meg: Yeah. A tape recorder was found with George's voice. Hello, Radio Budapest, this is George Senti. I'm speaking in the name of Perosca Lantos. How long can she stand this miserable shit filled life with me for another 10 days? The Denisons of Little Hungary weren't very shocked by the news. Leave it to George not to put the gun in his mouth. He was so vain.

[24:25] Jessica: Oh, my God. What?

[24:27] Meg: Look.

[24:28] Jessica: Soundbite.

[24:29] Meg: These Hungarians are hardcore, man.

[24:32] Jessica: I'm just saying they survived a lot. They didn't suffer fools gladly at that point.

[24:39] Meg: And those that lived in Tudor City, quote, this is a very quiet neighborhood, very romantic, actually. It's like an oasis. It's so scary to think something like this could happen in your own building. So it's a tale of two neighborhoods,

[24:56] Jessica: and it's a tale of obsessive love. Hmm.

[25:00] Meg: She was only here for a few months. It's also a story of, I guess,

[25:05] Jessica: the effects of war.

[25:09] Meg: War. I mean, everybody was forced to make choices based on the results of the war that they all managed to survive.

[25:19] Jessica: And being in a communist country.

[25:20] Meg: Yeah. Yeah.

[25:21] Jessica: There are many interesting things that you've just laid out for us. I'm not going to go super political right now. Just a little tiny something. One of the things that we grew up with was the knowledge that World War II was not ancient history.

[25:40] Meg: Yeah.

[25:41] Jessica: We lived with World War II as a thing that happened to and around the people who are part of our daily lives.

[25:50] Meg: Right. Especially. Cause we were in New York because so many people who did survive the war came to New York.

[25:57] Jessica: Correct. And uncles who served, you know, And I worked at the Simon Wiesenthal center when I was a teenager. Like, did you see the show Nazi? What is it? It's Al Pacino. It's the Nazi Hunters.

[26:12] Meg: Oh, I did see one episode.

[26:15] Jessica: The only real. Whether it was.

[26:16] Meg: It was filmed at the House of the Redeemer.

[26:18] Jessica: Unsurprising. The point of which is just that it was still in the news. And we've talked about this on this podcast with Kurt Waldheim, that finding Nazis was still an activity. And prosecuting them while we were in high school. And so when you.

[26:36] Meg: Hiding out in the suburbs.

[26:38] Jessica: Exactly. Like, oh, the Nazi nuggets. Stephen King wrote that book, that short story, Apt Pupil at that time, about a kid who is indoctrinated by his next door neighbor who is a Nazi. So that's all something that was very much part of our lives and now is treated like ancient history. And, you know, there are a lot of very, very bad things that are happening right now as a result of that disconnect that we don't experience. So we see it as insanity that is very connected to reality. The story that you've told is a story of ptsd. It's a story of survival and how that war echoed for decades and in so many different ways. Usually tragically, as. As is the case here.

[27:34] Meg: Yeah. I feel Awful for her. I mean, she got. She. She finally made it, and she was only here for a few months.

[27:40] Jessica: There's always some fucking guy with a

[27:42] Meg: gun, and what's she supposed to do, you know? That was sort of depressing, too, that it seemed like the only options she had were through men, and those men did not have her best interest at heart.

[27:56] Jessica: Well, what. I mean, she had $200 a month, right? So she's got nothing but her face. Also, what struck me is that, like, how come. I mean, think about Marla Hansen, who we've talked about, you know, these really terrible guys, like, so frequently. We've heard, like, the go to is, I'm gonna slash her face. I'm gonna throw acid on her face. Your face, your face, your face. That's how I'm gonna ruin you, because

[28:19] Meg: you made me feel bad about myself.

[28:22] Jessica: Yes, and your face is the commodity that you've got. Your looks are what you have. I'm gonna ruin. I mean, and of course, it does ruin your life when you're, you know, blinded by acid or whatever, but how they go for the face, it's. It's very interesting. But, yeah, how else she. And that's. That's the tale of survival that I'm referring to, that when you have no money, you have to go to people who have money. At the time, women didn't have, like, you didn't have this giant pool of women who were embracing other women. And, like, there weren't organizations and committees and outreach. Women for Women didn't exist. Right? So to survive, you just have to find whoever's got the biggest bank account and the most important reason to want you around them. Yet another uplifting tale of murder most foul. Ugh. George.

[29:23] Meg: Boo.

[29:23] Jessica: Boo.

[29:24] Meg: Wild and crazy guy.

[29:39] Jessica: So I had an unexpected, really nice thing happen last night.

[29:43] Meg: Nice that.

[29:44] Jessica: Well, like, all unexpected things took me by surprise. So I was going to host a dinner party last night, very small, because a couple of friends, like, we had to reschedule and cancel. And I was like, I'm not going to a restaurant. Everything in New York is too expensive. Fuck that. Not doing it. I'm going to make pasta. You're coming over, and that's it. And at the 11th hour, I get a call from our beloved friend of the podcast and dearest friend of mine, Nick, saying, do you remember how a decade ago, we had concert tickets and then my dad died and we couldn't do it? And I was like, ooh, vaguely. And he's like, well, it's your turn to go, baby. We had had tickets to go see Diana Ross. And last night she performed in Brooklyn at King's Theater. And Nick and his husband had three tickets. Amazing seats. They couldn't go.

[30:47] Meg: Oh.

[30:47] Jessica: So Nick called and he's like, guess what, baby, You've got three tickets. Want em? And I said, why, yes, I do.

[30:55] Meg: Interesting.

[30:57] Jessica: So last night.

[30:58] Meg: So I guess he wasn't part of the dinner party.

[31:00] Jessica: No.

[31:01] Meg: Okay.

[31:01] Jessica: No, no. It was completely separate. He had something else to do. Right. So he just. So I then had to call everyone and be like, there's no dinner party. I'm not making you any food.

[31:11] Meg: How many people were coming? Oh, no. And you didn't have enough tickets for them all.

[31:17] Jessica: Correct. Although I invited the women who are going to be there. As there were no gay men who were going to be there. I was like, I don't think so I invited Laurie and Ale. And Ale could come and Laurie could not. So I invited my dear friend Dave. And the three of us were like, what is this magical thing called the Q train? We're gonna get on the Q.

[31:42] Meg: You haven't been on the Q train.

[31:43] Jessica: Of course we've been on the Q. Tr. I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. Oh, my God. No. But I've never taken it out to Beverly Road. So it was an hour on the Q train. We get off in the freezing cold, trek over to Flatbush Avenue. The King Theater. King's Theater. If you have not been there, it was a movie palace that was renovated without destroying a single piece of molding. A single flake of gold paint. It's gorgeous. Amazing theater. Kraftwerk is going to be playing there soon. So if you want to see Kraftwerk, you can go there. But it was amazing. So I was like, great, let's go. We go now. This concert was phenomenal. First off, the woman turns 81 this month. She's still completely Diana Ross. There was no, like, oh, my God, they're wheeling her out. No, she was fabulous. Complete with capes. Like, you, like. She wears those, like, long robe kind of things that are like, also capes. She was just working. One of them had marabou feathers on it. It was fabulous.

[32:58] Meg: And does she have, like, backup dancers and singers?

[33:02] Jessica: No dancers. It's just. It's a more like, we're here to sing kind of show. A ton of backup dance.

[33:09] Meg: Center stage.

[33:10] Jessica: Center stage in the spot. But she's also got all of her musicians on stage, like a brass section. So that's part bass, electric guitar. Like, that's what you're watching. Exactly. And she did the hits. And so knowing her audience. I'm coming out. That's where we begin. Now, the audience, just for pure pleasure, I have to tell you, the age range was 20 to 920. And the demographic was split almost 50, 50, not quite between the black residents of Brooklyn and gay, gay, gay, gay, gay, gay, gay men. They weren't just gay, they were super gay, and they were super fans. So I was sitting there with Ali, like, I am so happy right now. This is amazing. We had sitting in front of us a coup. Alan and David from It Looks like they're in their late 60s from Charleston, South Carolina, super fans who were showing us photographs of their Motown shrine and shrine to the Supremes. And each of the Supremes, Mary Wilson, particularly in their home. It was fabulous. And what I loved about it also was that it was like strong community. Like, everyone in there was really in a great mood, supporting each other, chatting with strangers. It was lovely. So I'm looking at Diana on stage in her orange outfit, and I'm like, I know what you're referencing. So what we're gonna talk about today is July 21, 1983. Diana Ross does her solo concert in Central Park.

[35:05] Meg: Awesome.

[35:06] Jessica: And it was the largest turnout, rivaling that of Simon and Garfunkel, who reportedly had half a million people in the. You know, in the park as their audience. Diana Ross. And I'm gonna have a moment of, like, of course, because she's a woman, they didn't tally it well, but they said between 400 and 800,000 people were there. And the reason that this concert is so well remembered is because some of the footage and the still photos of it are mind blowing. Because Diana Ross, as a true diva, sang through a rainstorm, a thunderstorm, a lightning storm, was epic. So she is, you know, in her Diana, open arms on the stage in Central park, the rain just soaking wet, but looking incredible. Arms out, singing up to the skies. So what I didn't know was that the reason that this video is also so accessible is that it was one of the first concerts filmed for the newly launched cable channel Showtime. Okay, so this was a Showtime special, and there was a lot riding on it. That was one thing. The other thing that this whole concert was riding on was that it was a free concert. But the merch that was going to be sold was to finance a children's playground in Central Park. The Diana Ross children's playground.

[36:39] Meg: It's a wonderful playground.

[36:41] Jessica: Well, it wouldn't have happened if they had let the events of July 12, July 21, beware, things ended because July 20. So I saw the footage, and I was like, oh, I fucking love this woman. So she's singing. The rain is just beginning to start first, like. And you can see the cloud, like, the shot from the stage. You can see the clouds rolling in, and it's just getting darker and darker out. And you're like, oh, what's gonna happen? And you can see the crowd is getting a little restless. And as she's singing and she did this last night, she's also talking. She's like, la, la, la. Reach out and touch. No, no, don't touch that person over there. You're fine. Don't do any. She's like, reach out and. And I'm like, oh, my God, you are gonna own everything. Like, she's. She is so in control. It was amazing. So the rain starts, and she's like, it's just a little rain. We're still going. And she's singing, and, like, she's got, like. You know, she looks like she's sparkling just from the raindrops. And now it's starting to rain more. And singing. And she's like, everybody calm down. And then she points to one side of the stage and she goes, they're calm over there. You can pull it together. It's like, I can't believe I'm watching this. And obviously, this was kept as part of the. The special. So she's just now yelling at the audience, like, behave. So she's, mama Bear, behave yourself. That's enough. And mind you, this is 1983. This is hundreds of thousands of people who are mostly affluent people who are in the park for this reason. Now there's mayhem because of the rain. And now it's also lightning, and it's getting bad.

[38:41] Meg: It's a little scary.

[38:42] Jessica: And there are cables everywhere. So they have to shut it down.

[38:48] Meg: Yes.

[38:48] Jessica: But before they start electrocuted. Yes, before they shut it down. She being, again, not only the diva, but also the business genius. She says, we have to shut it down, but we're all coming back tomorrow. No one had agreed to this. No. So now the Parks Department and whoever had donated all the labor, the sound equipment, the recording equipment, everything, now they've got to do it again. And mind you, it's still raining. How are they going to do this? So before we even get into that, let's talk about the fact that, well, it's New York in the 80s and there are tons of affluent people who Are now trying to find their way out of Central Park. They are getting mugged left and right.

[39:35] Meg: Oh, don't tell me that.

[39:36] Jessica: It's true. So there's this unbelievable.

[39:39] Meg: Muggers are like, well, we know where you're going to be at a certain.

[39:43] Jessica: And they basically, like, stretched a net across the exit to see all these

[39:49] Meg: Upper West Siders, like, run for it.

[39:52] Jessica: Exactly. Are you running from the mugger or the rain? Does it matter? Get out of my way. So people are getting mugged, and in the meantime.

[40:04] Meg: Why is that funny?

[40:05] Jessica: Cause it is. Because it's like, it's just the mayhem to be expected. And the people who were the engineers were like, well, we now have cables that are sitting in mud and water. What are we gonna do? Well, it stops raining overnight. They are using dryers and everything they can imagine to dry out the equipment so that they can actually do what she has now promised. And the reason they're gonna do it is because there's gonna be a stampede of half a million people coming back.

[40:39] Meg: Right.

[40:39] Jessica: There's no stopping.

[40:40] Meg: That's nothing.

[40:42] Jessica: Exactly. So.

[40:43] Meg: Oh, my God. You can't just, like, post on Instagram. It's canceled. Like, they're showing up.

[40:48] Jessica: No, you. You have people now showing up. Mind you, the other big problem about that first night was that no merch was sold.

[40:56] Meg: Not good for the playground.

[40:57] Jessica: Not good for the playground.

[40:59] Meg: Not gonna have a good sandbox.

[41:00] Jessica: And that merch was also ruined. Some of it. I mean, everything was soaked.

[41:05] Meg: Okay, I. Sorry, I have to ask. Weather report. No one knew that it was going to storm.

[41:11] Jessica: From what I can gather, it was nothing. Like, this was expected. Like, maybe a sprinkle, like, and, you know, the equipment. You have to have a lightning storm for them to really be like, wow, this is fucking dangerous. And, like, flooded so that you've got cables sitting in water on a normal stage, a little bit of rain is fine. Perfectly fine. This was not that. And it's a summer storm. You know what summer storms in New York City are like. You're like, oh, this picnic is fanta fuck. So underwater.

[41:48] Meg: That.

[41:49] Jessica: Yeah, that was no. S good. The other really amazing thing. And so this video is available. You can see it on YouTube. I'm sure that showtime is. You know, they'd show it. I don't know what their deal is, but the opening of her show on the 21st was incredible. She had.

[42:12] Meg: So this is the next night.

[42:13] Jessica: No, no, the first night.

[42:14] Meg: Okay.

[42:15] Jessica: She had the Bernice Johnson dancers. They were a dance troupe from Harlem opening the show Doing a West African inspired dance with grass skirts. They looked like they were kids, so it was very, very charming and very like visceral. And she loves to project images of her history and herself. So while they were doing this dance, there had been some photo shoot with her where she's like, remember the Hungry like the Wolf video? Yeah, like that kind of. So they're dancing and then Diana comes like rises out from the middle of them wearing this. So they're in grass skirts. So she's got this costume that kind of has the same movement as that. It is the mom most outstanding fringed, multicolored, rainbow hued Issey Miyake creation. And she's like twirling and all of the tassels are going. It's amazing. And then she sheds it and is the smallest person you've ever seen in your life. Like, remember how you came over today? And I was like, oh my God, Meg, I found wildlife in my bathtub. And I was like, look at this little tiny, tiny green caterpillar. Where on earth did it from? And you're like, put it in a plant. I'm like, no, it'll eat the roots. And I throw it out the window because I'm a bad person. Okay. That caterpillar bigger than Diana Ross. Okay? So she's like this little wraith in an orange spangled outfit and she looks amazing. So when she's on stage and it's pouring and she's like, shut the fuck up. It's just a little rain. You behave yourself. You're like, yes, Ms. Ross, absolutely. Not a problem. The other thing that was happening in the 80s that had to do with Diana Ross is that her daughters Rhonda and Tracy went to Riverdale. Tracy's. Our year at Riverdale was in Nick's class. Back to Nick.

[44:18] Meg: I went to Brown with both of them.

[44:20] Jessica: Well, you got them on the tail end.

[44:24] Meg: And I took a dance class with

[44:25] Jessica: Chacey and Rhonda performed last night. Oh, wonderful.

[44:31] Meg: That's great to hear.

[44:32] Jessica: And she too was wearing an orange kimono esque cape. Scenario. Ale and I decided that we are going full cape from now on. We love it. Like it covers your ass. It's dramatic and you feel like a boss. You're like, so it, it's like a kimono. But imagine if it just sort of goes around the shoulders and magically hangs from there.

[44:55] Meg: Okay. So you still see like your boobs. It's not like haircutting cape where you're just completely covered.

[45:03] Jessica: It's to the floor. But it's open. It's open. Yes.

[45:05] Meg: Great. Okay. I can see that being a good silhouette.

[45:08] Jessica: Yeah. No, it's just dramatic. It's pure. Pure drama. Yeah. So they. They. On July 22, the concert came back. Everybody came back. It was a success. But they never were able to raise money for the playground. Oh, no. So she just donated it herself. Last night, I felt like I had the great privilege of seeing what might be her last concert tour.

[45:39] Meg: Oh, my goodness.

[45:40] Jessica: And her current album out is called thank youk, which was really the theme of the show. It was, you know, this is who I am, and it's because of my fans. And thank you. So it was very poignant and very, very lovely.

[45:56] Meg: How old is she again?

[45:57] Jessica: She's about to be 81.

[45:58] Meg: Okay. You know, honestly, I would have thought older just based on her. How long her career is.

[46:05] Jessica: She started when she was very young. 15. Wow. She said she started singing when she was 13, and I think they were discovered when she was, like, 15 or 16 and instantly, like, were a thing. So could you imagine your whole life? You're a star your whole life. That's gotta be weird. Oh, the other really cute thing talking about whole life is she brings people up onto the stage and she brought Rhonda's son Ryan and his friends on, so her grandchild was on there with her. It was very cute. So anyway, 1983, July 21st and 22nd. Diana Ross owned Central park and then gave back.

[46:48] Meg: It is, in fact, a beautiful playground. It is so well designed. It's got little nooks. It's a whole adventure, sort of choose your own adventure kind of playground. It's wonderful. So you're excited about your tie in?

[47:11] Jessica: It's tenuous, I'm not gonna lie. Oh, I love those. I'm all in. You were describing how George was going after Piroska.

[47:21] Meg: Yeah.

[47:21] Jessica: Yeah. And it was quite, quite stalkery. Well, one of the songs that Diana did, that she did last night is Endless Love. Oh. And I was like, oh, my God, remember how creepy that guy was in that movie?

[47:39] Meg: You know, I'm not sure I even saw the movie.

[47:43] Jessica: Brooke Shields.

[47:44] Meg: I know, I know. Obviously, I know what it is. So it doesn't end well. Tell me what happens.

[47:49] Jessica: He burns her house down.

[47:50] Meg: He does.

[47:51] Jessica: I didn't know this. Yeah. The boyfriend becomes completely obsessed with Brooke Shields. Yeah. Stalker. Cuckoo. Cauchou burns her house down.

[48:00] Meg: Honest to God, Jessica, I thought it was a love story.

[48:03] Jessica: Well, it is, in a way.

[48:08] Meg: And the song is beautiful.

[48:09] Jessica: Yes, it is.

[48:10] Meg: Who sang it with her.

[48:11] Jessica: Lionel Richie.

[48:12] Meg: He showed up.

[48:13] Jessica: No, no, no. He sang it with her last night. Someone who was on stage with her. Yeah. No, I would not have buried that. Lionel Richie showed up. No. But, yeah. So that's my tie in.

[48:30] Meg: I'm learning so, so much today.

[48:35] Jessica: Stalkers have a theme song. Yeah.

[48:38] Meg: No, I love that tie in, actually. By the way, we have 81 reviews on Apple Podcast.

[48:47] Jessica: Were you reminded of that because of how old Diana's about to be?

[48:51] Meg: No, but. Yeah, that's Italian, too, isn't it?

[48:55] Jessica: There's symmetry right there.

[48:56] Meg: I love it. But if anybody would like to write us a review, that would would be amazing. And we'll give you a hat.

[49:02] Jessica: You know who we need to give a hat to?

[49:03] Meg: Who?

[49:04] Jessica: Our very first review. Maryang.

[49:08] Meg: Oh, my gosh, of course.

[49:09] Jessica: Did she get a hat? No. But she gave us our very first ever review on Apple podcasts.

[49:16] Meg: No, we absolutely have to get her a hat.

[49:18] Jessica: Yes. So, Mary Angela, you're getting a hat.

[49:25] Meg: Sam.